Psychology

[Canuckette]

Hi everyone,

I've been looking for a thread that addresses the topic of,
I'll call it, "the survival mentality". I know that you know
what I mean because I find evidence of it in almost all the
threads I've read so far. But I don't see people addressing
it directly. I'm going to try. Or at least, I'll start the
discussion.

I think that a lot of the thing we call "mental toughness"
really comes from trial and errors attempts at doing.
If you keep trying, you're bound to get some good
results, and they help build confidence. That's why I
like watching videos or reading advice from people who
say things like, "I tried to start a fire in wet forest with
a magnesium bar and it took 5 hours." I like that because
those people are being honest about how hard it can
really be. And I like the fact that they don't give up even
when it gets tough.

So, what else apart from "experience" creates the
survivor mentality? You know, the ability to stick with it.
The ability to stay calm. To think rationally. If this is
the most important element to surviving, shouldn't we
examine it as much as we examine clothing, food or gear?
I'm especially curious about why it is that women, more
than men, lack this "elusive"(?) quality. I find it a bit
frustrating when I meet a lot of women who want to be
taken care of. I think the cause is partly evolutionary.

Anyway, this is just one of the survival questions that
has been on my mind recently. As I look at the world
and wonder who will make it and who won't, I can't help
but also wonder if I have what it takes. But even if I
Don't yet, I'm working on it. Thanks for everybody's
help. I really mean that.

[intothenew]

I wouldn't put a feminine or masculine tag on it. Maybe two different paths to the same end.

Family. My personal need for them, and I hope the need for me. That's the biggest driver.

Maybe your feminine exposure is simply a nest instinct. I like that instinct by the way.

[BENESSE]

May I recommend a book that deals exactly with these issues? I'm almost done reading it and it is beyond gripping.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Survivors-.../dp/B004TE6O2G

"Each second of the day, someone in America faces a crisis, whether it's a car accident, violent crime, serious illness, or financial trouble. Given the inevitability of adversity, we all wonder: Who beats the odds and who surrenders? Why do some people bound back and others give up? How can I become the kind of person who survives and thrives?

The fascinating, hopeful answers to these questions are found in THE SURVIVORS CLUB. In the tradition of Freakonomics and The Tipping Point, this book reveals the hidden side of survival by combining astonishing true stories, gripping scientific research, and the author's adventures inside the U.S. military's elite survival schools and the government's airplane crash evacuation course."

[jfeatherjohn]

Thanks, B. That book will be on my next order.
Another book on this subject is "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales. He realy did a lot of homework to write this, and it shows.

[alrany187]

Hi everyone,

I've been looking for a thread that addresses the topic of,
I'll call it, "the survival mentality". I know that you know
what I mean because I find evidence of it in almost all the
threads I've read so far. But I don't see people addressing
it directly. I'm going to try. Or at least, I'll start the
discussion.

I think that a lot of the thing we call "mental toughness"
really comes from trial and errors attempts at doing.
If you keep trying, you're bound to get some good
results, and they help build confidence. That's why I
like watching videos or reading advice from people who
say things like, "I tried to start a fire in wet forest with
a magnesium bar and it took 5 hours." I like that because
those people are being honest about how hard it can
really be. And I like the fact that they don't give up even
when it gets tough.

I feel a good portion of a positive "survival mentality" is being aware of the hazards before you go out. This enables you to prepare your mind for those situations should they arrive. A couple of years ago, I went to one of the local state forests with some friends. We all were aware that there was a major thunderstorm headed our way, but figured we could ride it out. I was in a canvas tarp, a military ccf pad and a wool blanket. As is my habit, I went to bed shortly after it got dark. MY friends chose to stay by the fire and drink. The storm hit around 1:00 am and continued for several hours. After about an hour, my canvas was soaked and the rain started misting through. But I was warm, so I just listened to the storm.

Around 5:00 am, the storm let up and I could hear one of my friends whining and crying that he was wet and cold and he hadn't gotten any sleep. Was it a survival situation? Not hardly, but he had given up already. He buys all kinds of gear, but he wasn't mentally prepared for the slightest discomfort. I offered him some hot cocoa to warm his insides and make him feel better, but he wouldn't have any of that. He wanted someone to walk him out to the vehicles.

So, what else apart from "experience" creates the
survivor mentality? You know, the ability to stick with it.
The ability to stay calm. To think rationally. If this is
the most important element to surviving, shouldn't we
examine it as much as we examine clothing, food or gear?
I'm especially curious about why it is that women, more
than men, lack this "elusive"(?) quality. I find it a bit
frustrating when I meet a lot of women who want to be
taken care of. I think the cause is partly evolutionary.

As has been said, there shouldn't be any gender gap with this. If there was one, I would say that men are the disadvantaged. They'll go to the woods and something they're not prepared for will happen and now they are not as capable as they let everyone believe.

Anyway, this is just one of the survival questions that
has been on my mind recently. As I look at the world
and wonder who will make it and who won't, I can't help
but also wonder if I have what it takes. But even if I
Don't yet, I'm working on it. Thanks for everybody's
help. I really mean that.

As others have recommended books, I would like to share one that addresses this subject in one of its chapters. Stay Alive: Survival Skills You Need is an excellent book by John McCann.

[kyratshooter]

So, what else apart from "experience" creates the
survivor mentality? You know, the ability to stick with it.
The ability to stay calm. To think rationally. If this is
the most important element to surviving, shouldn't we
examine it as much as we examine clothing, food or gear?

The keys include the experience you mention along with education and training. Knowing what to do supresses panic, practicing skills of any kind gives self confidence and a detirmination to "make it work" because you know it will work. Knowing it will work because you have already done it 200 times goes a long way.

That is why we see Sourdough, Sarge, Hunter and others constantly stressing "boots in the field". It does not have to be a field, forest or wilderness, it can be a day in the park working friction fire, a night in the backyard testing a new tent prior to a 2 week camp, or even a weekend at the American Red Cross working on first aid/CPR certification or CERT training.

The difference you see between how men and women react is also tied up in this education/training experience cycle, but there is some social conditioning going on there also. I am not saying that is good or bad, just that it exists.

I have seen women handle crisis as well or better than any man, then fall to pieces when a man arrives on the scene. Not every time, but I have seen it. It seldom happens when the women are well trained.

[WolfVanZandt]

It also helps to know how you tick. If you know the triggers that throw you into a panic, you can guard against them. If you ignore your own "specifications", you're just setting yourself up to get blindsided. Know your strengths and weaknesses and know how to pit the strengths against the weaknesses.

They don't really teach problem solving in school (they sorta shot in that direction, but it seems like it should be a primary emphasis to me). But a problem solving mentality is important in survival. The ability to break complicated problems into simple subproblems, to think backward from the goal to starting conditions, to look for similar but easier to solve problems as keys to solutions. Survival situations are problems to be solved and when you've learned that you can think your way through, "tame" problems, it makes you more confident that you can handle "wild" problems.

[Canuckette]

Thanks for all these great insights. They are helping me.
As I was reading your posts, I remembered something
Ranulph Fiennes said on a YouTube video. I am paraphrasing
here, but it was something like:

-- One of the things I look for when I pick my team
(For expeditions to the South and North poles) is malice.
If the person shows even a small hint, he/she is gone. (I think
he used the word "sacked".)

I guess a streak of meanness, even a teeny tiny one, can
Be like a sign of things to come. In my humble opinion,
here is a man who is very wise.

[Old Professor]

I also reccomend the book, Survivors Club. A great read. I have thought about this topic many times and I don't know what actually creates the "survivor mentality" I know that I have it but not how I developed it or why. Just an example: when my Doctor told me that I had Bladder Cancer, I thought about it for about ten seconds and the calmly ask'Well, what do we do about it?" No weeping and wailing, no "Why Me?". Just "Lets deal with this!" Same reaction when I fell from a ladder and broke my back, alone in the woods. After a brief swearing streak, I evaluated the situation and figured how to get myself out of the wood and to the ER.
I don't see any gender difference in having this survivor mentality, although I have encountered many women who "fake" being helpless (Just threaten their children and watch the change). I do not have any sense of just how many/what proportion of the general population has the survivor mentality but I would guess it is declining.

[BENESSE]

I also reccomend the book, Survivors Club. A great read. I have thought about this topic many times and I don't know what actually creates the "survivor mentality" I know that I have it but not how I developed it or why.

What I love about the book is it lays out how the survivor mentality can be developed and practiced and that we're not stuck being either "winners" or "losers" in this game. It also broaches the whole idea of luck--that in many instances we have a great deal of influence in bringing it about ; a lot of it is common sense when you hear it explained but some of it is definitely a great insight.

[BornthatWay]

I think that if you have not had the opportunity as a child to work out problems and learn to relyon yourself it takes alot more practice to get the mental toughness so to say to handle the survival situation. I was very fortunate that my parents raised me to stand on my own two feet and not depend on a "man" to take care of me. I was my dad's son since he had none. My grandmother on my dad's side was also a very self suffiicient woman and also taught alot about surviving.

I am did the same thing with my own children teaching them how to stand on their own two feet and to accept responsibility for the good things they did as well as when they did something bad. I always told my children that a mistake was okay as long as you learned from it. If you keep making the same mistake over and over then you are not a very strong person and will have a difficult life ahead. We often talked about people who were able to do things well and be strong and also about those who were weak and did not suceed very well. I am proud to say that my children are now 27 and 22 and noth have very responsible jobs and are doing well.

I think we all have to learn to stand on our own two feet and it better happen before we are grown adults. I also think that some people just have a stronger drive to succed that others and that plays into the pshychology of survival but anyone can become better with practice and help from someone that you trust. The most important thing is to learn to think in a logical way and as has been said brak each task down into the steps to complete it. Just remember that it does not matter how many times it takes to accomplish a task as long as you learn from each try and do not give up.

[Sarge47]

Your mind, or your mental outlook, is your 1st piece of survival gear, it is with you always! You might think about it as the "instinct for self-preservation!" Some people respond differently than others, however, and might even fail at that. Here's a few short incidents that I've posted to my blog that give some insight:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rvival-Story-1

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rvival-Story-2

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rvival-Story-3

Hope this helps...Sarge!

[hunter63]

The great equalizer between the "can do's" and the "not sure's", is simple training, or for some..... repetition of that training.

How many times have you heard in disaster situations, fires, storms..... what ever, "I just let the training kick in."

I have to agree with having it "In you" to be a "Do", but even a "Not sure" can be helped but experience and training.....Ask the Military, been doing it since military started ...."OK Gorg turn on watch tonite".

Are some better than others,... We are leaders/ followers, not always in every situation every time,...It;s important to know when to be what.
Of course, but we are who we are and deal with it.

Male/female....shouldn't even enter into to it, different route to a common goal, ......yes........I truly wonder sometime how DW takes 35 various unrelated facts, seem to just put them into her hat, stir with a stick, and produce a valid conclusion........Don't mess with success.

Handling adversity....Several things keep me sane sometimes:
"That really sucked, (insert disaster De jure )How can I make it work for me".........Is a favorite.

JMHO

[1776]

Check out 'Deep Survival' authors is Laurence Gonzales pub date 2005. He gets into hard science on the issue about physiological reactions as well as various survival phsycology Demonstrates thru numerous examples the stages all survivors experience. Covers everything from hours long ordeals to weeks in the wilderness and months at sea. Very easy to read. I reread it often.

Not a how to make this or that type book. Its focus is upon the mind and spirit of survivors.

[cwi555]

I don't play well in the sand box with political correctness, believing in saying what you mean and meaning what you say.
Here is how I see it right, wrong or indifferent.

Hi everyone,

I've been looking for a thread that addresses the topic of,
I'll call it, "the survival mentality". I know that you know
what I mean because I find evidence of it in almost all the
threads I've read so far. But I don't see people addressing
it directly. I'm going to try. Or at least, I'll start the
discussion.

Actually, it has been addressed on many different forums and
in many different books.

I think that a lot of the thing we call "mental toughness"
really comes from trial and errors attempts at doing.
If you keep trying, you're bound to get some good
results, and they help build confidence. That's why I
like watching videos or reading advice from people who
say things like, "I tried to start a fire in wet forest with
a magnesium bar and it took 5 hours." I like that because
those people are being honest about how hard it can
really be. And I like the fact that they don't give up even
when it gets tough.

Training in bushcraft, situational awareness, self defense,
and other skills can help. However that is an upper tier mental skill.
Mental toughness is a different beast all together.
There are people that train all their lives in various aspects of their
careers, lives, etc, only to fold up in a fetal position sucking their
thumbs when SHTF for them (literally in one specific case).
Conversely, I've also known people who never trained a day in their lives,
who when SHTF held it together, and not only survived, they thrived.

So, what else apart from "experience" creates the
survivor mentality? You know, the ability to stick with it.
The ability to stay calm. To think rationally.

There is no substitute for experience. Neither is their any one
omnibus litmus test. You will know when it happens to you.

If this is the most important element to surviving, shouldn't we
examine it as much as we examine clothing, food or gear?
I'm especially curious about why it is that women, more
than men, lack this "elusive"(?) quality. I find it a bit
frustrating when I meet a lot of women who want to be
taken care of. I think the cause is partly evolutionary.

That's a touchy subject. I believe your correct in that evolution
plays a part in it.
I do think your mixing up a few things though. The survival instinct
vs hunter gatherer/care taker instincts. Most humans are born with
a survival instinct. Some stronger than others. There is nothing wrong
with the women you speak of. Several thousand years is a long time
to forget when it comes to genetic instinct. As technology grows, the
gender gap decreases, to the point that parity is reached between
the genders. Strip the thin veneer of society away and it reveals
a side of humans many don't care to mention exist, much less recognize.
Men and women think differently, are built differently, and wired differently.
That's just the medical facts.
I would submit to you that those women you speak of are simply recognizing
the genetic aspects though they are not speaking of it directly. Men on the
other hand tend to want to believe that they are 'independent'. Which would
be kind of hard to do without ovaries.
It is my opinion that for physical, mental, instinctual, and other factors, men
and women work better as a unit, than by themselves. There is a reason
they are simply not wired the same, and rather than argue about which is
better, they should be supplementing each others strengths, bolstering
their weaknesses, and working with their differences rather than fighting against them.
Without society and alone, the odds are higher for short term survival for a man, but in the long run,
without the woman around, he'll meet the same fate.
Humans are simply not meant to be 'alone' or stand alone. It takes both for a myriad of reasons.

Anyway, this is just one of the survival questions that
has been on my mind recently. As I look at the world
and wonder who will make it and who won't, I can't help
but also wonder if I have what it takes. But even if I
Don't yet, I'm working on it. Thanks for everybody's
help. I really mean that.

[WolfVanZandt]

I would agree with cwi555 on the topic of gender. I'm not so sure if he would agree with me further, though. I believe that most of the differences seen between the genders are taught by culture. Most, but not all. After all, there are brain differences, hormonal differences, other physiological and structural differences.

The folks in my "people group" are weakly affected by culture. Things like social pressures barely leave a dint. Therefore things like gender difference and such are trimmed down pretty much to the bare minimum. There are differences but there's no such things as a war between the sexes, mysteries of sex, "I just don't understand (the opposite sex)."

In that group, I see absolutely no differences in survival potential. In fact, of all my acquaintances, if I had to chose one to survive a disaster with, it would be one particular female regular to my annual campout. Doesn't hurt at all that she's military.