The Devil is in the Details

[BENESSE]

Also look at this from CSPI:

"What does a healthy diet look like? Despite (or maybe because of) all the diet books, food pyramids, and expert advice, most people are still confused.
Yet we know which diets can lower the risk of heart disease, the major cause of death in the United States. Odds are, those same foods can also promote weight loss and help prevent diabetes and cancer.
The tricky part is summing up an entire diet in simple, easy-to-remember advice. Here's our try...."

http://www.cspinet.org/nah/articles/whatshouldeat.html

[BENESSE]

Speaking of "Super Foods"...just a handful here but the actual list is long and varied. (I'm afraid bacon is not on it.)
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/10foods_bad.html

[intothenew]

Thanks for the links BENESSE. 3rd in that superfood list is yogurt. I've had dehydrated yogurt on the lab experiment list for a couple of weeks. I've never tried it that way, it's coming soon.

[WolfVanZandt]

I am simply trying to put some forethought into packaging meals, for myself and the grandkids, to use when hiking/camping/fishing this coming spring and summer.

I realize that, which is why I pointed out that what you are doing is useful. I still think your best bet is to start with an approximation and adjust as needed.

What about this? Start with the basic meals and then notice the results. If there seems to be something missing, look for snacks that might supply those things. Of course, you'll have to figure out just what's missing.

You don't seem to be looking for a long-term healthy diet, though, but meals that will supply what you need for "outings". If that's true, then you're not going to be all that interested in vitamins and trace minerals. Then your main concerns will be calories, water, and electrolytes, maybe fiber - am I on track, there?

It is interesting that Americans have been trying to zero in on a healthy diet forever and we're some of the most unhealthy people around. On the other hand, the French are some of the most healthy and they eat all kinds of "unhealthy" stuff with impunity. The implication is that it's not so much what we eat, but how we eat.

[BENESSE]

It is interesting that Americans have been trying to zero in on a healthy diet forever and we're some of the most unhealthy people around. On the other hand, the French are some of the most healthy and they eat all kinds of "unhealthy" stuff with impunity. The implication is that it's not so much what we eat, but how we eat.

The French Paradox...it's fascinating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_paradox
This is pretty much how our grand parents and great grand parents ate and in looking at the old family photos I realize that no one was overweight, much less obese.

"In his book, The Fat Fallacy, Will Clower suggests the French paradox may be narrowed down to a few key factors, namely:

• Good fats versus bad fats — French people get up to 80% of their fat intake from dairy and vegetable sources, including whole milk, cheeses, and whole milk yogurt.
• Higher quantities of fish (at least three times a week).
• Smaller portions, eaten more slowly and divided among courses that let the body begin to digest food already consumed before more food is added.
• Lower sugar intake — American low-fat and no-fat foods often contain high concentrations of sugar. French diets avoid these products preferring full-fat versions without added sugar.
• Low incidence of snacks between meals.
• Avoidance of common American food items, such as soda, deep-fried foods, snack foods, and especially prepared foods which can typically make up a large percentage of the foods found in American grocery stores."

[intothenew]

....................Then your main concerns will be calories, water, and electrolytes, maybe fiber - am I on track, there?.....................................

Kinda, sorta,...........maybe.

Yes, I will certainly have to look at this with some priority of importance to some extent. I would include things like fats, cholesterol, and sodium to the items that you mentioned, although in the contraire sense.

And let's look at that concern using one of your examples, fiber. Based on the second question in the OP:

Assuming I need a 4000 calorie diet, do I need twice the RDA of fiber? I pose that question based on the fact that the RDA is based on a 2000 calorie diet (4000/2000=2). And, I pose that question in the opposite direction. If the daily calorie intake is determined to be 1000, do I half the daily intake of fiber (1000/2000=.5)? Are those reasonable assumptions?

[WolfVanZandt]

I'm not really sure but I don't think there's a linear relationship there. Fiber doesn't provide a lot of fuel (average of 4 calories per gram) and takes a lot more to break it down that other sources of energy. I think you can figure fiber separate from calories. The average adult should be getting between 20 and 35 grams of fiber a day. Most of us don't get nearly that amount.

Anybody else have any ideas on that?

The sodium is an electrolyte and needs to be balanced with potassium and calcium. I'm thinking you'll need to consider recommended amounts and then supplement as needed due to excretion rates (esp. sweat).

[intothenew]

I'm not really sure but I don't think there's a linear relationship there. Fiber doesn't provide a lot of fuel (average of 4 calories per gram) and takes a lot more to break it down that other sources of energy. I think you can figure fiber separate from calories. The average adult should be getting between 20 and 35 grams of fiber a day. Most of us don't get nearly that amount.

Anybody else have any ideas on that?

Took the time to do a little research. This first link (LINKY) speaks of a linear relationship, 14 grams of fiber per 1000 calories consumed, but also warns of excess. They also warn of drying and crushing lowering the water holding properties of fiber. That concerns me because I had planned on a lot of dehy.

This next one (LINKY) has some of those same warnings.

The sodium is an electrolyte and needs to be balanced with potassium and calcium. I'm thinking you'll need to consider recommended amounts and then supplement as needed due to excretion rates (esp. sweat).

Linear? I have used what may, or may not, be a wives tale for years: 3 units of water, 1 unit of electrolyte mix.

[WolfVanZandt]

Looks like a good website so I would go with it as a starting point and see how it works.

I don't know about the electrolytes. I'm thinking that, since they're water soluble, mild surpluses are going to be excreted out of the blood.

[intothenew]

A couple more links.

The first one (LINKY) is for adults, and gives some indications for UL (upper limit) on vitamins and minerals. The source page they credit, for the Institute of Medicine, is busted. I'm gonna have to track that down. I'm liking what I see otherwise with that site.

The second (LINKY) is for teens. I've got to dig a little deeper into that one.

[WolfVanZandt]

Heh. My doctor has me on 4,000 mg niacin a day - they recommend an upper dose of 35 mg. I'm taking enough niacin to kill.........how many rhinos?

(sigh)

Yeah, but those look like good pages.

[intothenew]

Can I be so forward as to ask the affliction?

[WolfVanZandt]

The niacin is to adjust my "good" cholesterol. He watches my liver in case it decides to go belly up. I have some cardiac problems.

[intothenew]

I wish you the best.

And you answered, or I think you did, the side effect. (liver)