pellets vs rimfire

**Stiffy** · 12-24-2012, 11:43 PM

I've decided I need to add a firearm to my emergency plan. In keeping with my philosophy of "better to hide than to fight," my firearm would be used for food gathering, not self defense. Therefore, help me decide.

I've been looking at high powered pellet rifles, but that's big money for the top quality stuff, or not so much money for a lower performing, less reliable Chinese product. On the other hand, one of my local pawn shops has a Stevens single shot Model 15 .22 rifle, with scope, for $70. Bad thing is the pawn shop has no idea how old it is. It looks like it's in good condition, but I'm not sure I like the risk of buying an old weapon.

So one of you decide for me.

**kyratshooter** · 12-25-2012, 12:00 AM

If you are really buying this firearm for food gathering purposes, and you have little experinence buying firearms, then skip the .22 caliber completely and head straight for the 20ga or 12 ga shotgun.

A quick look around will find you a good used shotgun for about the same price and age will not be a consideraton as long as the firearm is in good condition.

In spite of the hype of the prepper world the 22lr is not the ultimate firearm for all purposes. Shotgun first, then .22 if you just have to have one.

**Stiffy** · 12-25-2012, 12:14 AM

Did I mention I'd prefer to hide? It's hard to stay hidden when you start shooting off a 12 gauge. With the .22 and CB ammo, I could harvest small game with significantly less noise. Also, I know that the .22 is not the "ultimate firearm for all purposes." I'm not looking for the all purpose weapon. Just one to do some hunting.

**kyratshooter** · 12-25-2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Stiffy

Did I mention I'd prefer to hide? It's hard to stay hidden when you start shooting off a 12 gauge. With the .22 and CB ammo, I could harvest small game with significantly less noise. Also, I know that the .22 is not the "ultimate firearm for all purposes." I'm not looking for the all purpose weapon. Just one to do some hunting.

If you already made your mind up why did you ask?

Depends on what you are surviving does it not? Get real, there are no zombies.

If you are worried about being heard then what would heard you has already scared off anything you would shoot.

Besides, if they heard the 12 ga they would have heard the .22.

If they hear the 22 the reaction is "What was that, where did it come from?"

If they hear the 12 ga the reaction is "HOLY $&!T, IS HE COMMING THIS WAY?"

**canid** · 12-25-2012, 12:18 AM

That's a fair consideration, if you are poaching, or expect one of these societal collapses with bands of predatory marauders people keep going on about. Otherwise, Ky's advice is pretty good.

If you just plain want an air rifle, get one. If you just plain want a .22, get one.

**Sarge47** · 12-25-2012, 12:55 AM

Rossi makes a gun that has two barrels, one a shotgun, the other a .22. You can switch them out easily enough. Remember, by changing over to a shotgun and using deer slugs, you then have the equivalent of a short range, high-power rifle. That might come in handy if somebody finds you while you are hiding...just a thought.

**kyratshooter** · 12-25-2012, 02:10 AM

I'll agree with Sarge on that advice and I am sure Hunter would chime in too.

The multibarrel guns are a real good idea for those just starting or getting back into firearms. I have the Rossi offering and use it as a back up for several firearms. Mine has the shotgun, .22 and 30-06 barrels and I have inserts for 7.62x39 and .308. with a 20 ga adapter for the 12 ga barrel I have backup for a half dozen other guns I consider my actual primary firearms.

Since the frame is the "gun" if I was only allowed one "gun" I would be hard pressed to not choose the Rossi with its magnified capabilities allowing me to shoot mice to moose as well as birds and other fast moving critters.

If you choose the H&R Handirifle you can buy the proper frame and shotgun barrel, then add the other barrels as you can afford them. The extra barrels are not excessively expensive. You do have to insure you buy the proper frame when you start.

You could go with a cheap 12ga SS and use the adapters for .22 and other calibers as a real cheap alternative.
http://www.mcace.com/shotguninserts.htm

One thing I definately would not do is start buying up a bunch of junk guns from pawn shops. The Stevens model 15 is about the least gun that was ever put on the market by an American company. I bought one new back in the day for $25, and that was way more than it was worth.

**kennethdnunn** · 12-25-2012, 04:31 AM

You did say the rifle would not be used for self defense....you also said you wanted to stay under the radar......a shotgun is not a good choice for survival weapon....it is a lot louder than any 22 I have ever heard....however, the biggest draw back is the ammunition..... if you are traveling on foot then you could only carry a box or so of shot gun ammunition that would only be 25 rounds....,.with the same space you can carry about 1,000 rounds of 22 ammunition.....or about 5,000 rounds of pellets....while a pellet riffle is almost sound less it is good for only smaller game... birds squirrels, rabbits, and frogs....on the other hand a 22 can be used to bring down game as large as a deer.....22 long rifle hallow point being the poachers weapon of choice.....so the choice is do you want ultra stealth or bigger game?....

**Stiffy** · 12-25-2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by kyratshooter

One thing I definately would not do is start buying up a bunch of junk guns from pawn shops. The Stevens model 15 is about the least gun that was ever put on the market by an American company. I bought one new back in the day for $25, and that was way more than it was worth.

What kind of problems did you have with the Model 15?

**kyratshooter** · 12-25-2012, 02:01 PM

Light primer strikes on every other round, failure to extract, even after all the parts of the bolt had been replaced. All the parts are cheaply machined, very rough work, and most of the parts are held in by staking and peenning rather than pins, screws or rivets.

I still have this rifle set away and never used because it is the first rifle my son ever shot. Good memory from a fairly pitiful example of a rifle.

As far as a "survival" gun goes, I always think back to my grand-fathers, who went through the Great Depression. After everything that could be sold for expenses had been sold, and only the absolute necessities remained, both men came out of that era with two guns each; A 12 ga shotgun and a 38 revolver. One lived in the mid west and the other lived in the south, so it was not just a regional thing.

Real survival and imagined survival or playing senerio games are different activities.

I have my choice of a number of firearms for any use imaginable, but the gun sitting beside the back door at this moment, waiting for anything that might happen, is a 12 ga. Plinking at the range or in the back yard or even chasing a squirrel when there is already food in the fridge at home are not survival activities.

If your main focus is "staying hidden" you need to take your $70 and buy more ramen noodles so you can stay inside and hide. If you go out the door you risk being seen and followed, even with a pellet rifle. Any real firearm is going to make a sound that can be heard for a mile in the absence of modern noise. I haveone pellet rifle that is almost as loud as a .22 rifire so that is not a real benefit for the tradeoff.

In your zombie world you re going to be seen, there will be confrontation and you had better count on that rather than hiding in a hole. You will be found. What do you want to be carrying when found?

**hunter63** · 12-25-2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Stiffy

I've decided I need to add a firearm to my emergency plan. In keeping with my philosophy of "better to hide than to fight," my firearm would be used for food gathering, not self defense. Therefore, help me decide.

I've been looking at high powered pellet rifles, but that's big money for the top quality stuff, or not so much money for a lower performing, less reliable Chinese product. On the other hand, one of my local pawn shops has a Stevens single shot Model 15 .22 rifle, with scope, for $70. Bad thing is the pawn shop has no idea how old it is. It looks like it's in good condition, but I'm not sure I like the risk of buying an old weapon.

So one of you decide for me.

So if the decision is wrong at the time, it's our fault, Right?....LOL.....You really need to do some more "what ifs here....taking responsibility

So you will be a hider.....city?...., country?......
Now think about this....if per chance you are caught out and about and are forced to confront a threat....should you bring to bear a fire arm of any kind, it better be able to neutralize that threat.......or the results could be fatal.

Might be better off with a sling shot, bow or the like....

As far as .22 vs air rifle about the same with an edge to the .22.

Krats advice on a multi barrel rig is valid, (my personal preference being the H&R Handi rifle)..... But Rossi has a good starter set, .22, ,410 or 20 ga, along with a .243 rifle for a good price.

Advice of what our grandfathers has and used in right on the money, .....I still have MF 12 ga single shot,(all farms had a single or double 12ga at the door)......... but sadly I don't have the Winchester pump .22 my MM carried to school for rabbits and the like (she was the teacher).

I would pass on the Stevens mod 15, another $30 bucks will get you a Cricket .22 (or did,,,)

**cwi555** · 12-25-2012, 05:19 PM

How much is your life worth?

**Sarge47** · 12-25-2012, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Stiffy

On the other hand, one of my local pawn shops has a Stevens single shot Model 15 .22 rifle, with scope, for $70. Bad thing is the pawn shop has no idea how old it is. It looks like it's in good condition, but I'm not sure I like the risk of buying an old weapon.

So one of you decide for me.

1st, just remember, you get what you pay for.

2nd, re-read your last line, don't write this if you think you won't like the answers, okay?

**Stiffy** · 12-25-2012, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Sarge47

1st, just remember, you get what you pay for.

2nd, re-read your last line, don't write this if you think you won't like the answers, okay?

My last line said "help me decide." However, I never said "help me decide which is the best all purpose gun . . . or does my passive, non-confrontational approach make sense . . . " All I asked was "pellet gun or .22" Nothing more.

If anyone has an opinion on that question, I'd appreciate hearing it.

**alaskabushman** · 12-25-2012, 07:11 PM

In the airgun world I really like the Stoeger model X20 Suppressor, get the .22 cal version, .17 is fun but for game procurement a .22 will kill better, even at the lower velocity. the suppressor version is the quietest airgun I have ever shot. pellets are cheap and very easy to find, even now during the panic buying of ammo.

For .22's I would look hard at getting a Cricket or one of the new Rascals by savage. I have a Chipmunk and it makes a very easy to pack rifle. Its pretty accurate and with a 16'' barrel you'll get all the velocity the .22 lr has to offer. Plus all of these cost as much or less than a quality airgun.

When it comes to noise obviously the .22 lr is going to be the loudest (the exception is a pre charged pneumatic big bore air gun) , espicially if you have a 16'' barrel. the alternative is to shoot shorts or CBs which reduce velocity to airgun speeds but are still louder than the Stoeger X20. Granted you are still shooting a heavier bullet with the CBs.

Often people reserve pellet guns to plinking or toy status, but they are still a viable survival hunting tool, and its better than a stick! Just my two cents.

**Sarge47** · 12-25-2012, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by Stiffy

My last line said "help me decide." However, I never said "help me decide which is the best all purpose gun . . . or does my passive, non-confrontational approach make sense . . . " All I asked was "pellet gun or .22" Nothing more.

If anyone has an opinion on that question, I'd appreciate hearing it.

Well then, if that's what you want to know then the answer should really come from you. As I said, "You get what you pay for." I was referring to the gun in the pawn shop. If you want to know MY opinion it's a "no brainer." Ruger 10/22, .22 LR. Never seen an air rifle that was semi-auto yet. It's my understanding that you have to pump them at least once after each shot unless you use CO2 cartridges. Then the power decreases as the gas level get's lower. The pumping can also make some noise. Good luck!

**Stiffy** · 12-25-2012, 08:07 PM

Yeah, I'm pretty much leaning toward the rimfire, instead of a pellet rifle. Next decision is tougher . . . used vs new . . . single shot, repeater, semi auto, it's a lot to consider.

**Stiffy** · 12-25-2012, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by alaskabushman

. . . For .22's I would look hard at getting a Cricket or one of the new Rascals by savage. I have a Chipmunk and it makes a very easy to pack rifle. Its pretty accurate and with a 16'' barrel you'll get all the velocity the .22 lr has to offer. Plus all of these cost as much or less than a quality airgun. . . .

I looked at a Cricket at Wal mart but it's so small I can't get a sight picture when I shoulder it. The Rascal appears to be about the same size. The only way I could shoot either one would be if I modified the stock. That's why I've been looking at older, used single shots. They are a much better size for me than today's youth guns. Of course, I could get a new H&R single shot, but for that much money, I can also get a new Marlin 981t repeater.