Old Ammo vs New Ammo

[hunter63]

Digging around in my hunting gear, came across a almost full box of Remington Cor-loc 150 gr ammo that I have had since about 1988, or so.

As the stuff I have been carrying lately for deer hunting is maybe 3 years old.....and as they are also Remington .270 150 gr Cor-loc as well, got to wondering if over the years the powder, bullet or something else changes that would make for a different group.

Mostly I use my fresh "ready rolls" for game......so that's why the factory stuff has been around so long......LOL, and I know where and how they shoot.

As I have seen older ammo at gun shows and bought some odd ball stuff, kinda make ya wonder how close they are in the Q.C. Dept as far as being consistent at the range....over the years?
Might be a consideration when looks at stuff at shows.....

Any thoughts or experience?

Guess the only way to tell is a direct comparison at the range.....

[kyratshooter]

Factory stuff hits nowhere in the same county as my hand loads in any rifle shoot.


I also find that most factory has different POI from box to box.

[TresMon]

I have friends in the AMU. They were tasked with testing .50 bmg ball rounds that had mid 1950's head stamps. The reason the Army had a bunch of 50 cal ammo from that ammo. The AMU determined, using hand picked M2 50 bmg machine guns with new barrels that the old ammo was just as accurate and reliable as new manufacture ammo. Granted that's machine gun accuracy and not bolt gun accuracy, but it still makes the case.

I personally shot a magazine of 45 acp ball with 1940's head stamps and it proved just as accurate and reliable as modern ball.

[hunter63]

I have to agree that a worked-up hand loads, done carefully are very accurate when one shot counts....
My question is strictly for factory ammo, not hand load vs factory.....
Loaded with the same bullet, came caliber......just a number of years apart on manufacture date.

My thought was only the factory QC, is OK for general use, and I'm sure there are Min/max tolerances that must be maintained, who know what that my be.

I'm just wondering if changes in manufacturing over the years, may have an effect of POI.

that being said, I haven't really noticed any difference, and I sure that batch are being tested to see that those tolerances are being adhered to.

[Bushman]

I have to agree that a worked-up hand loads, done carefully are very accurate when one shot counts....
My question is strictly for factory ammo, not hand load vs factory.....
Loaded with the same bullet, came caliber......just a number of years apart on manufacture date.

My thought was only the factory QC, is OK for general use, and I'm sure there are Min/max tolerances that must be maintained, who know what that my be.

I'm just wondering if changes in manufacturing over the years, may have an effect of POI.

that being said, I haven't really noticed any difference, and I sure that batch are being tested to see that those tolerances are being adhered to.

OLD ammo ain't necessarily BAD ammo....... I have fired over the last 50 odd years of hunting/shooting a truckload of ex-mil ammo downrange......and only a couple of times have had a miss-fire (which usually fired on a 2nd whack of the firingpin)

My take IS; factory ammo will last for decades (given a modicum of TLC) Keep it dry, cool and moisture free and you should be able to shoot it fifty years from now !!

Point of Impact change on Factory ammo comes about because Ammo factories load in 'batches'.........(just as loads of concrete vary from truck to truck on a building job).....they don't vary 'much'.......but unlike cement...ammo/propellant manufacturers MUST test each individual batch for pressure and muzzle velocity.

Mostly they're working on 'pressure limits'.....say 55-65,000 psi range depending on the weight of the projectile, specific calibre and other factors........

The 'mechanics' of the deal are; a 'batch' is mixed (pretty much like concrete) which weighs whatever ......that batch of powder/propellant is then poured out of the 'mixer' and into the processor.....which eventually comes out of the end of the machine as the familiar spherical or log shaped grains we are used to seeing when we re-load.

That particular batch of powder is then used to load however many cartidges they can get out of that batch. If you have a look on the end flap of a 20round boxof ammo, you'll note a 'Batch No.....just hauled out a box of .22short Winchester Super Speed stamped 'BF52'.......... another, box of Winchester 30-06 which has on the inside end flap '79CA72.......52 87'.........tother end flap is stamped 'Carton No.SRSXR50.....E116417.......and so on......

The point I'm making here is this; Commercial ammo is ALWAYS made in 'batches', and rounds common to that batch will give a certain velocity and pressure signature. And ONLY to that batch. The next 'mixer load' will be slightly different, probably not by much, but often 'enough' to make a slight difference on the range.

Which is 'why' target shooters try to buy as much of a particular 'batch number' as possible. I always buy rimfire ammo by the 'brick' (500 rds) at a time. The I'll KNOW I won't have to re-zero the rifle for quite a while If you can buy the case, all the better. The same applies to centrefire ammo. Buy 500-1000 rounds of the same batch if you can afford it........

if you're in the habit of buying, say your 'usual' box of 30-06 150gn Corelokts just once ayear, then using 10 rounds to zero the rifle and the last 10 for hunting........don't wonder, when the following season, you buy another box of the same, that they DON'T have the same Point of Impact.........more than likely that ol' BATCH thingey come ta git ya !!

BUY IN BULK DAMMIT !!

[Wildthang]

But for general purpose hunting, say 30/06 for deer hunting, a rifle in good condition using a different batch from the sight in batch, should still hit within the kill zone as long as you are using the same brand, projectile weight and bullet type.

[Bushman]

addendum: the only time I've noticed a LARGE shift in POI is from cheap brand .22 rimfire ammo.......stick to the major manufacturers and you should be ok

[karatediver]

I've shot ammo my great grandfather reloaded and it worked fine. I've shot ammo originally packaged in the 50s and 60s with no problems. The key is to store it in a cool, dry place. Where you may have problems is if the ammo has been bouncing around your truck for a few years. The vibration could cause the roll, flakes, or whatever of powder to break down in a fine powder and this may change the performance of the ammo. Also, older ammo may have corrosive powder. Changes in temperatures from extreme heat to extreme cold over a period of time may also change the powder.

[hunter63]

But for general purpose hunting, say 30/06 for deer hunting, a rifle in good condition using a different batch from the sight in batch, should still hit within the kill zone as long as you are using the same brand, projectile weight and bullet type.

This I agree with, as in hunting conditions, position of the shooter, the speed of the target, the brush in the way, and the Law of Murphy will always trump MOA.........
That being said, it's good to know "where" your ammo hits, to start with.......take that out of the equation....The rest is up to you.

Just something that popped into my head while sitting in my blind for days, with a wondering mind.

Like a friend once said...."I don't HAVE any old ammo"....

[GreatUsername]

I know that with some older or antique arms, you actually HAVE to use old ammo because modern ammo is higher pressure than rounds which originally used black powder, instead of modern smokeless powders. Obviously, ammo must keep for a pretty long time to still be useable that long after production. Granted, I know that in most cases it's handloaded to the appropriate pressure, or if commercially produced, it's specially made, but I'm fairly sure I've heard of certain older rounds being used decades and decades after they were first loaded with pre-modern specifications.

[hunter63]

I have never had a problem with any ammo failing to go Boom.......with a maybe a the exception of some old 12 ga paper hulls that I think are black powder, as a couple when "thump" and the buck shot kinda rolled out the barrel.....

And generally speaking most all hit the target being shot in the same gun as the newer stuff, maybe not in the same place.......

[Adventure Wolf]

I've shot ammo that's over 20 years old before. I've seen no difference between old a new.

[hunter63]

AW. 20 years for ammo isn't really old, I started re-loading in 1988 still have some around, and shoots the same way as they did in 1988......I'm talking ammo made in the 50's, 40's, and even earlier.

Had a 303 Savage model 99 lever gun, from my father, and GF, that I passed along to a nephew, along with some ammo, from a hardware store, boxed marked $1.89....so was really old.....LOL

I know that for some 20 years seems old,..... for some not so much.

I do pick up old odd ball ammo at shows, some partical boxes, but orginal stuff, not re-loads ....if I can find it,....so kinda brought to mind this question.

[glockcop]

A few years ago I had an old Sergeant friend give me some ammo (30-06 .357mag, and 38 spl to be exact) from mid 60's that shot just fine. This was "brand new old stock" from his gun shop that he shut down many moons ago. As long as it has been kept cool and in low humidity, ammo can last almost forever. Shoot it up and have fun.