LESSONS LEARNED FROM SANDY - A microcosm of understanding.

[Wise Old Owl]

Here we are a few days into the aftermath and while politicians are patting themselves on the back for a job well done, the reality is setting in for those that were unprepared and the stories are starting to leak out how bad it really is.

Here is a good place to leave something as a book for others to read....I will start it off.

People did not see a need to have two types of phones-cellular and the old hardwired. So when the power went out in Manhatten the cell towers did not have generators and the cell service died. People could not call for help and were trapped in high rises. They had long since cancelled there old hardwire service.

No surprise if there's no electricity - there's no flush, and the same people are urinating or defecating in the halls outside their apartments.

No Refrigeration - no food - no ability to cook or warm things up... two days later reports of dumpster diving behind restaurants.

[Wise Old Owl]

Exspect Gas in the region to double... while across America will drop. Price gouging sent NYC gas $10 a gallon.

Gas lines will be based on license plates - even and odd on different days.

28 million gallons limit ten gallons per customer distributed by dept of defense by military

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[Echo2]

I wouldn't expect anything less from the populace at large.

A small hand held CB would allow you to call for help.....channel 9 IIRC.

Do half these folks think about the battery back up for their computer?.....it would run a LED lamp for days.

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for the folks that just lost power......I guess the week long warning just wasn't enough time to make some arrangements.

My heart goes out to the folks that lost everything.....but if you are still breathing.....90% of the battle is won...the other 10% is dealing with the insurance companies.

I hope this sparks a lot of folks to get their ducks in a row as far as inventory of insured items....stored off location.

Sorry if I sound cynical.....sometimes sheep just get under my skin.

[Batch]

No surprise if there's no electricity - there's no flush, and the same people are urinating or defecating in the halls outside their apartments.

Most toilets are gravity fed. You just need enough water in the bowl to push the waste through the trap enough for gravity to take over. Water storage in the city should be a BIG priority. I would also not waste too much potable water. Any grey water generated could be used to flush a toilet though. You shouldn't flush urine in these circumstances. Adopt the rule if if its brown flush it down and if its yellow let it mellow.

BTW, as Rick has a list on reasons not to come to Florida. I now have started one for big cities. Rule one people defecating in the hall. I'd much rather be up to my *** in alligators!

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I forgot to do) Cash - no power - no credit cards - no mac machines.

I have an old SW AM/FM and about a year ago I found some 300 feet of copper wire left over from a dog fence so I launched it for AM long distance and ran it out to the tree from the house about 20 feet high and 150 feet out. So as I am sitting here near Valley Forge PA I am listening in on talk radio stations in NYC. There is a lot of truth to the "drive by media" As I sat here watching Philadelphia news - there was little mention of New Yorkers.

Yes theres a car battery in a tupperware on a trickle charge. Days of Radio and TV.

[kyratshooter]

City, suburbs or rural, the rules are the same. Shelter, water, food.

The major differnce in the cities is the concentration of people results in a concentration of stupid people, who outnumber the smart people by a wide margin. They also scream much louder than the smart people so they can not hear advice, orders or instructions over their own noise and are upprepared when the unusual happens.

They also tend to be more systems dependent, resulting in the call for government assistance rather than the call for family assistance.

Where I live (and this is first hand disaster experience) the first calls are often not to 911, they are to Mom, Dad, sons, daughters, quickly followed by cousins, neices and nephews. Granma and grandad are called for supervisory experience and the releaf effort begins! If you can't find any of them you call 911. The 911 guy is busy, no need to bother him and he probably does not even have a chainsaw you can use!

I have come to the conclusion over the years that the reason people do not prepare is not because they do not care, it is because they are STUPID!

And guess what? No list you make is going to do them any good 'cause"

"You can't fix STUPID!"

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I do every time) I get the Supermarket Distilled water Gallons I place two gallons in each freezer. They freeze up after 24 hours and unfreeze takes two to three days... after six hours I transfer one of the gallons into the center of the refrigerator. This system works as well as dry ice and I have drinking water and wash water on the cheap.

For those on a well - fill the bathtub prior to the storm and have a "clean" three gallon bucket handy - use your imagination.

[Wise Old Owl]

Two surprises I found out yesterday - here locally those that can afford it got out - exstended stay and hotels around Philadelphia are surrounded with cars with plates from NY and NJ. Many Hotels are booked full. Many dropped everything and fled NYC.

Red Cross set up a thousand people at West Chester University at South Campus 30 miles west of Philadelphia. Refugees of New Jersey bussed to stay in the gymnasium. Meals and Cots and tractor trailers for service. Having seen this before firsthand after a tornado years ago - I am not sure I would want to be there.

[Dagar]

Also lessons learned from Katrina and Andrew. My family went through Andrew in 92. The whole infrastructure in Homestead was blown away or flooded out. It was if I remember correctly 3 months before power was restored back to the majority of the city. I think they got the water online a little sooner.

Worst thing not have in a situation like this is a firearm. Gangs from Miami would come down and loot and raid. Even with martial law and they did put that into effect, but Andrew unlike Katrina, they did not go in and take away people's guns from them, leaving them vulnerable. The gun laws of NY and NJ are going to make it very difficult for the average person to stay safe. Not to mention, rotten debris, mold and mildew, homes that will need to be gutted or torn down to repair or rebuild.

The other issue NY and NJ will have this coming week is there is another Nor'easter on it's way up the coast, this will cause more damage, more flooding and create stress on the people still there.

Bloomberg is not letting the National Guard into stricken areas because he only wants NYPD on the scene with guns. The emergency services are already strained beyond their 9-11 capacity. And people are dying now, you can only live 3 days with no water, many will perish because they did not have water or could not get down out of high rise buildings to find water.

Something else to mention, which if you are not a hurricane storm prepper, the center pressure of Sandy, was equal to a Cat 3-4 hurricane, not to mention it's size, far large in scale than Katrina or Irene, though Irene was loaded with water and rain unlike Sandy.

This is why the weather forecasters kept talking about how "LOW" the center of pressure was but they never related it to anything people could connect to it. This is why even though Sandy as a hurricane was only a Cat 1 on the scale for winds, it was in the center in reality a Cat3 or better.

It's going to be a mess and get worse.

[Wise Old Owl]

DSCN1216ab.jpg

Here is how I have Kitchen back up - the tree can be connected to a Coleman propane light and a Mr.Heatbuddy at the same time...its backed up with a (2) Twenty gallon bottles. one is outside attached to a BBQ and they both have meters.

First couple of times I used a Carbon Monoxide detector - but that was so low - I have since moved it into my dad's camper.

[Dagar]

When we lived in VABeach, Isbella was heading into us as a Cat 4 hurricane. We lived a whole 7 miles from the beach. Seeing my family go through Andrew and the aftermath I did not stay to see the end result. I took the kids and drive inland to Greensboro NC. The storm was downgraded as it came into the coast but you can not wait that long to evacuate and see if the Cat 4 will drop to a Cat1 when you live in an area of 1M+ people and your only way out is under water bridge tunnels and bridges. We really could not afford to leave, but I stuffed 4 of us in a hotel room for $39 a night and I left two days before the storm hit.

When these storms head into the shore if you do not make the decision to leave before the rest of the population, you get stuck. If you are going to leave, get OOD well ahead of the masses. Remember the Katrina mess...people stuck on the interstate wasting gas moving at .5 mph and stuck in traffic 10 hrs to drive 30 miles? Not worth it.

[Pal334]

Exspect Gas in the region to double... while across America will drop. Price gouging sent NYC gas $10 a gallon.

Gas lines will be based on license plates - even and odd on different days.

28 million gallons limit ten gallons per customer distributed by dept of defense by military

1102dv_ny_gas_lines_400x300.jpgGuests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

Odd,, the price , even today for gas is edging downwards in all of NJ. Only problems are elctrical power for pumps. The "odd ,even" system here is only for 3-4 days until the gas stations in the northern half of the state get power back, the southern half, it does not apply at all. Very few stations away from the shore areas are closed, and are recieving fuel deliveries almost as normal. Where stations are open anywhere in the state , there are no"gallons per customer" limits in place any where in the state. National Guard fuel tankers are delivering Federally released fuel to those stations in areas not readily accessible to commercial fuel trucks.No Federal or National Guard forces are actually controlling the "pumping" of gas. Not sure where you are getting your information from, but unfortunately it does not resemble the realities here in NJ /NY areas

PS,, I stand corrected. Saw this;;;;New York's governor says the U.S. Department of Defense will set up emergency mobile fuel stations around the New York City metro area.

[WolfVanZandt]

I heard a woman on the radio the other day talking about their decision (she admits they could have gotten out) to remain in their home in coastal New Jersey with a sick elder. When they found themselves stranded and in a life threatening situation, they called for help. They were informed that they had had a chance to leave and now there wasn't enough manpower to get them out. Her comment was that instead of talking rescue, they could start talking body camp. She sounded disgruntled that "they" couldn't get them out.

"They" were in the process of risking "their" lives doing what they could with what they had to work with. The woman and her family, by the way, actually did survive.

The first mental adjustment to survival is to take responsibility for your own life and modern humanity just doesn't get that.

[Wise Old Owl]

Next good lesson (something I forgot to do) Cash - no power - no credit cards - no mac machines.

I have an old SW AM/FM and about a year ago... So as I am sitting here near Valley Forge PA I am listening in on talk radio stations in NYC.

Yes theres a car battery in a tupperware on a trickle charge. Days of Radio and TV.

Not sure where you are getting your information from, but unfortunately it does not resemble the realities here in NJ /NY areas

uh you missed it... straight off the local stations in NYC. and from members living there right now on Long Island

[Geek]

I'm in NJ but not near the shore. Power has been out since last Monday. Destruction was primarily trees coming down on utilitiy wires, houses, etc. Today was the first time I saw an open gas station. The lines were long as has been described on the news. I had several friends who had shore places subatantially damaged. My cousin on Long Island is also going through similar events there.

I could make some comments on lessons learned, but the event isn't really over yet.

Everyone in my household is well. We have a generator wored into the panel that has worked flawlessly since Monday. We also have plenty of gas. Getting around has been diffficult due to downed trees, inoperable traffic signals, and of course the well publicized gas problem, which clogging roads whereever lines form.

[crashdive123]

I have spoken with several friends on the Jersey Shore (Brick, Seabright, Asbury) that are still without power. They were prepared fairly well but still cannot believe the destruction they are experiencing. In their little neighborhoods things are going as well as can be expected. Most of them are using social media to communicate, as it seems the most reliable (in terms of being able to "get through"). I have friends on Long Island that I have not heard from yet.

[Rick]

Just a correction on the cell towers. Virtually all phone buildings have either generator backup on site or a generator coupling for the building. That certainly doesn't preclude damage to towers. I've seen tornadoes actually move a microwave horn so that it is no longer in alignment, which means no service. Those sites that have couplings will be down until employees can get to that location and hook up a mobile generator if they are without commercial power. Those are always top priority so I would expect them to be down a minimal amount of time IF THAT IS THE ONLY PROBLEM.

While voice service might be out on your cell don't forget about text. It will often work when voice is not available.

You're overall concern about multiple means of communication is a valid one.

[Geek]

The good thing about cell vs. Land line phone service is one can be operating when the other is out, assuming you have both. We get our land line service from the cable company. That lasted about 8 hours after the power and then went out, so I now know how much backup they have. Cell service is degraded, but operating at my location. I understand about 25 percent of all towers are out in my area, but I have service.

It could just as easily been the other way around.

[Rick]

You probably have a battery backup in your cable modem just for power outage. I'm not sure what type of modem you have but mine are located in the bottom of the modem.

[Echo2]

This is why our comms guy is trying to figure out the data transmission end of his HAM units....his Icom unit is capable of doing it.....it's just figuring out how to make it come together.