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Thread: Penicillin??

  1. #21
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    The FDA, and counterpart organizations in other nations keep rosters of exactly that. They are certainly very far from complete, but determining how, under what circumstances and to what degree they can do so is exactly their purpose.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    There are quite a few natural materials with antiseptic properties - sphagnum moss, honey, wild garlic, and pine sap come to mind. As far as something you can inject or swallow, just keep in mind that the molds that produce antibiotics also produce a host of other substances - some toxic. The man who raised a wolf pack as their alpha swears that their saliva has effective antibiotic properties (and, of course, saliva does have lysozomes, but having me lick your wound would have you in the hospital in a couple of hours - I dunno about wolves). Organic purification techniques would be the key skills for a would-be wilderness pharmacist.

  3. #23
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    Edit: couldn't make this sound right.... so I will scrap most of this post (if the mods are ok with that)

    I don't trust the FDA, they have far to many conflicts of interest. IMO. Thanks Canid for sharing some good info.
    Last edited by mountainmark; 11-02-2012 at 03:59 PM. Reason: said too much

  4. #24
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    As far as honey and pine sap being a good antiseptic- I just tossed that idea around the ER , and the responses were that the sugar would heavily increases bacterial growth. Any thoughts?

  5. #25
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    I haven't tried honey, but I have tried pine sap on more than a few occasions. It took the infection out quick. Though after tasting pine pitch, I can't imagine it has a very high sugar content.

  6. #26
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Sounds like the ER people haven't looked into natural antiseptics. Yes, sugar would normally increase bacterial growth but honey has good antiseptic elements and the osmotic pressure it creates is enough to explode most bacteria around. It has been used successfully (and documented) for treating diabetic ulcers and burns. Honey has been used as an antiseptic for at least as far back as classical Greek times.

  7. #27
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    They made is clear they weren't educated in wilderness survival or natural remedies but said as a general rule the sugar would be a bad idea. Can you explain how it creates osmotic pressure that explodes bacteria?

  8. #28
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Some in the medical field believe in the use of honey. I keep these in my first aid kit.

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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Wow that's really cool Crash. Thanks for sharing that.

  10. #30
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I can't say I've ever seen honey go bad. No mold or bacteria growing in it. It will convert to sugar over time but that's all I've ever seen. I just keep it stored in the cabinet.

    I'll have to look for those and do some research on them. They do peak my curiosity. Nice post.

  11. #31
    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    Honey is the ONLY food that does not go bad,it will get grainy,but heating it up returns it back to it's natural state.
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  12. #32
    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    Some in the medical field believe in the use of honey. I keep these in my first aid kit.

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    Honey is used in medical practice,namely for babies born with spina bifida,and it worked,the honey kept the hole from getting infected (antibacterial) .
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  13. #33
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    There are almost no bacteria which can grow in very high concentrations of sugar, for several reasons, one of which being the sugars' hygroscopic properties, which dessicate living cells, be they sucrose, glucose, maltose, dextrose, lactose, etc. with that said, if you dilute that sugar to a reasonable concentration with water, or water containing material, you're providing one of the most efficient foods imaginable for a great many of them, in a highly usable form.

    how concentrated does that sugar stay when your honey 98-80% application is diluted at it's interface with the skin to 1/6 by blood and sweat?
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  14. #34
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    let's really not forget that in any case, a topical antiseptic does nothing whatever for the need of an internal, systemic antibiotic.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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  15. #35
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    That's an excellent point, Canid. The whole purpose of a topical dressing is to prevent external contaminants from having a way inside your bod. A clean, dry dressing does an admirable job. One with some antibiotic properties...all the better. Once the buggies get inside, though, whole new ballgame. By my calculations it would require eating 2.6 tons of honey if you contracted Septicemia. I could be a little off on the math so don't try this at home.

  16. #36
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    A clean, dry dressing does an admirable job. .
    Not as much as you would think....

  17. #37
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Thanks Randy and Canid. I dropped a byte, there. Hygroscopic pressure doesn't "explode" the bacteria, it dries them out.

    Internal antibiotic is useful but the best is a healthy immune system and plenty of blood. I once gouged my finger really good when a Tigershark saw (really aggressive thing, that) jumped the cut and attacked my finger. It bled profusely and everyone wanted me to clean it out and bandage it. I refused - as long as it bled, I was happy. The next day there was a plug clot. The next day, the clot fell out, the next day there was a scar. A week later, you could barely tell that I had been cut to the bone by a wood saw.

    In a survival situation, don't let a wound get infected. Keep your tetnus shots up to date Treat a wound when it occurs - don't wait. Remember that a small wound can escalate into a life threatening situation in the wild. Understand when your body is attacking an invader (as, with an abscess or inflammation) or when it is going overboard (when the inflammation turns into an -itis).

    Unless you let things get away from you, you shouldn't need an antibiotic in the short term unless you have a compromised immune system. In a long term colony-type situation, it might be a good idea for someone to have taken the precaution of learning wilderness pharmacy - which will require some knowledge of natural drug purification techniques.

    That said, I think I've read that garlic does have some systemic antibacterial effects. I'm not so sure I would want to trust that with a serious case of septicemia, though.

    If I hadta, though, I think I would find every herb plant I could and make a tea and wash out of it. Many herbs have a mildly antibacterial effect and the cooperative effect might do the job. There's a tradition down south that "Thousand weed" tea (to the rest of you, that would be "cow manure tea") has an almost magical effect on systemic infections. I'm skeptical. The stories I've heard swear that "It always cured me of colds and other respiratory infections within three days" (typically, you get over a cold in three days, anyway).

    "It cured me of the whooping cough when I was a child."
    "Well, how long did it take."
    "Whoa, I coughed and coughed for a long time but it finally cured me....."

    The idea, though, is that cows much a wide variety of greenery and the combined effect of all that herbal medicine going through their gut will cause a pharmaceutical wonder to come out he other end.

    Well, it doesn't seem that it will kill you; boiling it kills all the enteric bacteria that would make you sick. And some folks include crushed up cough drops in their recipe (I would recommend Ricola for your cow manure tea.) You can try it if you want. I'll demure.
    Last edited by WolfVanZandt; 11-03-2012 at 04:16 PM.

  18. #38
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Man I am not going to drink no cow poop

  19. #39
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Heh, I know a state senator that swears by it. In fact, to put a name on it.....

    http://www.al.com/specialreport/birm...lackbelt7.html

  20. #40
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    Honey is such concentrated sugar, it dehydrates the bacteria and kills them. High concentrations of salt water would do the same. But in these cases you are talking topical. If you dilue the honey with water, bacteria will thrive in it. Penicillan is the first one discovered, but many other antibiotics are discovered in organisms in soils, the question is, how toxic are they.

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