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Thread: Penicillin??

  1. #41
    Senior Member GreatUsername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyRhoads View Post
    Ok, do you know of any plants or fungi that CAN be used like the man made refined drugs?
    Unfortunately, most of them are laxatives, and while they work VERY effectively (cascara, from which exlax is made, and called "the kybo rocket" by my old scout troop) that's not as exciting as say... anti-biotics. There are a myriad of topical antiseptics as previously mentioned, but one I noticed was missing was red alder. Supposedly (I honestly don't know, but I've heard this) alder sap can not only be topical, but can be effective if concentrated and taken internally. I also know pacific yew is effective for mild cancer-treatment, and is in fact a protected species specifically because of the drugs made from it, but I imagine the efficacy is significantly less. You might try a tincture of the bark, and then concentrate it as much as possible, but honestly, if you're in a situation where you are treating cancer in the woods, something is already very wrong.

    I also heard there is a plant in the Pacific Northwest with purple flowers and leaves that look like mint called "heal-all", which is supposed to be good for various respiratory problems and a handful of other ailments. Does anyone know of this plant, and if so, how effective it is?
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  2. #42
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Here's a secret of herbalism: every plant which isn't especially dangerous (and some which are) has been claimed at one point or other to be effective at treating 'breathing problems' (tuberculosis and other respiratory diseases), fever (epidemic viral fevers, e.g. malaria, yellow fever), and 'sores' (venereal disease), for want of an actually effective treatment. Essentially, for all your common, recurrent, epidemic diseases of which people were afraid for about which little could be done.
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  3. #43
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    According to wikipedia, though it doesn't seem to do as much with what herbalists claim it does, heal-all (Prunella vulgaris) does some stuff. "In vitro studies have shown it to have an antibacterial action, inhibiting the growth of pseudomonas, Bacillus typhi, E. coli, Mycobacterium tuberculi.[14] It is also showing promise in research for AIDS,[15] and allergies."

    I imagine that's kind of how a lot of this goes though. "It's good for this." -shaaman. "Actually, no, but it does have some effects you didn't consider." -modern botano-chemist
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  4. #44
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Yeah; that happens a lot.

    What really gets me is when the in-vitro studies seem to confirm the claims, but no such human effects greater than statistical error can be observed in internal studies. Some of it's got to be what starts as a confirmation bias, but I wonder if a little of it was healers who paid even more attention to detail than modern reseachers. Basically saying 'Yes, this does seem to do what you said it did, but not strongly enough to observe in a whole person, even statistically.'
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  5. #45
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    Often, folk medicines have no more than a placebo effect (but, then, placebos can be very effective). Shamans don't just give a medicine and say, "Go home and call me tomorrow". They are holistic practitioners, calling on the entire client, their environment, their circumstances, and their relationships. A shamanic treatment, taken out of context would not even be expected to have results.

    On the broader issues, shamans deal with chaotic processes and very tiny initial states (even unmeasurable) can cause very drastic divergences down the line. In that way, they can be effective in situations where science, which is handicapped in chaotic processes, is limited. Most modern shamans will quickly emphasize that they are an adjunct to, and not a substitute to modern medicine.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfeatherjohn View Post
    Buy aqarium meds...
    Even an incredibly competent pharmacist would not attempt diy antibiotics.
    ^X2.You can go into the pet store and buy 99% pure antibiotics for a few bucks.

    Mold that grows on grain can be extremely deadly.. it can rot a person to death with no cure. It is so complex and so much of it is unknown, it is not something to play with. It would be the equivalent of skipping thru the wood eating random mushrooms.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubercrow View Post
    ^X2.You can go into the pet store and buy 99% pure antibiotics for a few bucks.

    Mold that grows on grain can be extremely deadly.. it can rot a person to death with no cure. It is so complex and so much of it is unknown, it is not something to play with. It would be the equivalent of skipping thru the wood eating random mushrooms.
    Here is a little info on fish antibiotics, before you buy any check these following things out, The manufacturer , and the imprint on the pill, Some fishbiotics are exactly the same as ours from the same manufacturers ..
    I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"

  8. #48
    Senior Member WolfVanZandt's Avatar
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    There is also the issue of knowing how to use them.

    Penicillin is one of the least toxic substances around (in pharmacy, they told us that it's less toxic than sugar), unless you're allergic to it. Other antibiotics are another matter. It's easy to overdose on tetracycline (a double dose will do it) and once you get too much of that one, you won't want to do it again. Antibiotics like sulfa drugs and fluoroquinolones (Cipro) have some rather nasty (and common) side effects.

    And individual antibiotics are good for different things. Penicillin is pretty much worthless for the new antibiotic resistant bacteria. Penicillin, in it's active form, doesn't partition out very well into the urinary tract, but Cipro does. So does tetracycline. Tetracycline is a drug of choice for the kinds of things you get off ticks.
    True enough, my final home is still out there, but this is most certainly my home range and I love it. I love every rock I fall off and tree I trip over. Even when I am close to dying from exhaustion, a beautiful sunset doesn't lose it's power to refresh and inspire me and that, in itself, is enough to save me sometimes.

  9. #49

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    When civilization comes to a halt I will break into the local drug store and help myself to what ever I need.

    Until everything in there expires.

    Damn, didn't anyone read "The Stand"?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cement Blonde View Post
    When civilization comes to a halt I will break into the local drug store and help myself to what ever I need.

    Until everything in there expires.

    Damn, didn't anyone read "The Stand"?
    Do you really think that there your the only one thinking that. with in days maybe hours , grocery stores, Pharmacies , and sporting goods stors will be stripped bare.
    I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
    Here is a little info on fish antibiotics, before you buy any check these following things out, The manufacturer , and the imprint on the pill, Some fishbiotics are exactly the same as ours from the same manufacturers ..
    I think your link is missing.?

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ubercrow View Post
    I think your link is missing.?
    I didnt post one. Ill find it and link it if you want it.
    I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by welderguy View Post
    I didnt post one. Ill find it and link it if you want it.
    Oh my bad,, I read it wrong "check these following things out" not- check this out.

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