Survival School?

[FaithnoMore]

I know this is sort of a strange request but would anyone be interested in helping me start a "survival" school? I really could use some people that know about friction fires, flintknapping, bowmaking etc. i already have like 4 people from various pats of the country but I live in Massachusetts. I already know alot about plants and mushrooms so I don't need another person like that. Honestly i just need one more person and I am getting desperate to find them.

Whether this idea is feasible or not i do not know. I would appreciate some feedback even "that is the worst idea ever, it won't work"

I know someone out there is interested...

[hunter63]

So how much are you paying?
Do you have any credentials?...Certifications?....Degrees?.......I nsurance?....Location?

[natertot]

Well, since you asked.....

That is the worst idea ever, it won't work!

Really though, how are you going to teach something that you yourself don't know? Instead of starting a school, I think it would be better to attend one. Once you have "mastered" the skills, then think about teaching.

[kyratshooter]

Hey Nater, we got just the guy he needs!

That short red headed fellow we camped with this weekend is just the guy he is looking for. I am prety sure he has more woods time and better skills than necessary for the positon. All we have to do is find a way to keep him from falling under the table.

Sounds like the skill level would be about what this newbie needs for his endevor, we just need to get that table problem worked out and gain some confidence in the public speaking area.

[oldsoldier]

Well, since you asked.....

That is the worst idea ever, it won't work!

Really though, how are you going to teach something that you yourself don't know? Instead of starting a school, I think it would be better to attend one. Once you have "mastered" the skills, then think about teaching.

faithnomore... I agree with natertot here. Even if you had the basic skills needed, I don't mean 4-5 different people teaching different skills. I myself wouldn't want to go to and pay high prices (and you'd have to charge them due to overhead like insurance) with several people "piece mailing" the training. I'd want one or maybe two people teaching the class, maybe different ones for different schools. For example during my military days, I had one lead instructor who had a couple "helpers" to handle the number of students mainly to watch so no body did anything stupid during my training. The same with my artic training, my jungle training and so forth. We have members here like sourdough that IMHO would fit the survival expert role. But I don't think they would even want to go that direction. The risks are just to high IMO. One little mistake could cost someone at best serious injury at worse death. We had a class of if I remember correctly 12 during my jungle expert course. Out of the 12 everyone of us had at least one moderate injury and 2 that had to be medivac'ed with serious/ life threatning injuries.

Sorry to burst your bubble BUT bad idea. I myself would LOVE to teach a course to help people with the bare bones of lliving until rescue type thing..... but insurance alone is over half a millon dollars a year.

[kyratshooter]

I think you might have something there with that "piece mailing" thing OS!

Perhaps he could start a mail order corispondence survival school and cut out the overhead and cost of relocating the experts to the wilderness of Massachuscetts.

I hear this new thing called U-tube might be good for something like this. I wonder if anyone else has thought of that?

[FaithnoMore]

As far as insurance goes if someone over 18 signs a waiver saying they take full responsiblity for their actions, and accept the risk, I imagine I will be good. the paper I print the waivers on will cost under $5.

I have several different locations one of which i personally own. I live in MA but the land is in VT. I don't personally like this location but it will do. I am also looking into getting permission to use a large area of woods in Kentucky that one of my other instructors knows about.

Degrees don't hold much weight with me. If someone knows the skills i will take them. If they don't I won't.

Honestly without more interest perhaps I should look elsewhere.

[Echo2]

You may find it hard to protect someone against their own stupidity.

They are there to learn.....you would be responsible for teaching....which means you are the "man in charge".....aka...."the responsible party".

[Sarge47]

As far as insurance goes if someone over 18 signs a waiver saying they take full responsiblity for their actions, and accept the risk, I imagine I will be good. the paper I print the waivers on will cost under $5.

Waivers don't mean a thing, liability is still liability. And if said person's under 18 and their little darling gets injured or killed, mommy and daddy will be a-coming after you. Believe me I know. I seen it happen more than once where judges over rule contracts, waiver's, and the like.

Degrees don't hold much weight with me. If someone knows the skills i will take them. If they don't I won't.

The degrees are for YOU! Why would I or anybody else listen to somebody who's not credited? I can go to David Canterbury's school, Willow Haven, Or Cody Lundin's, just to name a few.

Honestly without more interest perhaps I should look elsewhere.

.Perhaps you should if you're only interested in getting the answers that you like and ignoring the ones that you don't. Good luck with that.

One last question, why should ANYBODY pay good money to attend a shoddy school like you're describing when they can learn all of that in the Boy Scouts? Just curious.

[kyratshooter]

I am still waiting to hear how much you are paying!!!

That was the first question asked and never answered. I got a new spork this weekend and I need to try it out, getting paid while I do so sounds interesting and profitable.

Woodsmen in general tend to be open with their comments so you may find if difficult to keep "assistants". You said you wanted feedback even if the feedback was negitive, then when you get negitive feedback you get bent out of shape!

[Stairman]

Dont expect folks to come knocking your door down to take a course in wilderness survival. Most people are lazy bums these days and are looking for the easy route always. Thats not really the case with most folks on these sites but we are the minority trust me. With the internet and you tubes, its easy to learn things on your own with a little time and patience. I currently have a survival course running myself, and am doing a demo for a christian schools class next month, but its during the day with no overnighter, which is what I prefer since I dont carry liability insurance. Without an overnight stay keeps things alot safer and simpler. I advertise a day course to learn the skills, and then you can go camping and practice what you learned with your own chosen friends. From what Ive found, 95% of people are lazy and uninterested in roughing it. The percentage of folks wanting to learn about urban survival and prepping [at home] is alot higher since the eath is suppose to end in December. Yea right? You will have to know your stuff well or even kids will smell a rat but becoming a good woodsman isnt on most people to-do list.

[Sourdough]

Honestly without more interest perhaps I should look elsewhere.

I would suggest you employ "Homeless" people to teach about survival. As to Wilderness Survival Skills you have been asked what your paying....??? My guess is nothing, or ego stroking. If I am wrong, about that, just tell me. There are skilled people on this forum available for hire. I don't think you have any idea how clueless you are about wilderness survival, or what wilderness skilled people get paid. I will also take a wild guess that you are clueless as to how hard it is to get people to pay real cash to learn skills that will save their life.

What would you be willing to pay. But to answer your above question, I am available for hire.

[natertot]

Hey Nater, we got just the guy he needs!

That short red headed fellow we camped with this weekend is just the guy he is looking for. I am prety sure he has more woods time and better skills than necessary for the positon. All we have to do is find a way to keep him from falling under the table.

Sounds like the skill level would be about what this newbie needs for his endevor, we just need to get that table problem worked out and gain some confidence in the public speaking area.

I think you're right! He is an expert on how to land when you fall without injury, keeping warm in cool (not freezing) temps, spotting insects, and utilizing leaves as camo. Hmmmm, I'll have to see what his agent thinks. Might be good for the feller!

[FaithnoMore]

What I will pay is whatever you feel you could reasonably charge for a course. Honestly that depends more on your level of knowledge than mine.

I am a little concerned about the insurance issue but I imagine it is unlikely that someone would get seriously injured on a one day course, say, tanning leather. Being "in charge" basically means this falls on me until i get some more rigorous insurance in place. You have to start somewhere. Many schools have started from lowly beginnings.

Noone has answered MY question either do you know how to do anything I asked or not?

[Echo2]

Many folks here can do what you are asking...but when you throw the word" professional" into the mix....you change the dynamics of everything.

Have I taught folks bushcraft skills....yes....I am actively involved with Scouts....and the Scout Council insurance was there for someone getting hurt.

You can be out for the day....but it only takes a second to mame or kill you.

[ReconScout]

I know this is sort of a strange request but would anyone be interested in helping me start a "survival" school? I really could use some people that know about friction fires, flintknapping, bowmaking etc. i already have like 4 people from various pats of the country but I live in Massachusetts. I already know alot about plants and mushrooms so I don't need another person like that. Honestly i just need one more person and I am getting desperate to find them.

Whether this idea is feasible or not i do not know. I would appreciate some feedback even "that is the worst idea ever, it won't work"

I know someone out there is interested...

As far as insurance goes if someone over 18 signs a waiver saying they take full responsiblity for their actions, and accept the risk, I imagine I will be good. the paper I print the waivers on will cost under $5.

I have several different locations one of which i personally own. I live in MA but the land is in VT. I don't personally like this location but it will do. I am also looking into getting permission to use a large area of woods in Kentucky that one of my other instructors knows about.

Degrees don't hold much weight with me. If someone knows the skills i will take them. If they don't I won't.

Honestly without more interest perhaps I should look elsewhere.

What I will pay is whatever you feel you could reasonably charge for a course. Honestly that depends more on your level of knowledge than mine.

I am a little concerned about the insurance issue but I imagine it is unlikely that someone would get seriously injured on a one day course, say, tanning leather. Being "in charge" basically means this falls on me until i get some more rigorous insurance in place. You have to start somewhere. Many schools have started from lowly beginnings.

Noone has answered MY question either do you know how to do anything I asked or not?

This is a terrible idea. You're not taking insurance issues seriously. Your knowledge is limited to plants and mushrooms. You claim to know a few people in real life and have to resort to the internet (people you don't know) to expand your employee base. How are you going to verify people fit for your school? You're not interested in any accreditation, acquiring certifications or establishing any validity for a school that will theoretically teach survival skills in exchange for money. You don't mention a curriculum, employee pay rates, customer course fee, liabilities, contracts or understand your responsibilities towards the customer. Plan on advertising? What can you factually state that will create a customer base? Can those claimed facts be verified? Or will this be school be an under the table venture? Not to be rude but your idea appears to be a get rich quick scheme.

[kyratshooter]

What I will pay is whatever you feel you could reasonably charge for a course. Honestly that depends more on your level of knowledge than mine.

I am a little concerned about the insurance issue but I imagine it is unlikely that someone would get seriously injured on a one day course, say, tanning leather. Being "in charge" basically means this falls on me until i get some more rigorous insurance in place. You have to start somewhere. Many schools have started from lowly beginnings.

Noone has answered MY question either do you know how to do anything I asked or not?

Short and simple. Last question first. Of the people that have answered you none of them are not capable of teaching some segment of your course. Hunter, Nater, Sarge, myself and a half dozen more that have not jumped into this thread could run their own major operation. I am quite sure they would know more than you do about many, many subjects, not just survival skills. If you know mushrooms we could fill in the rest due to most of us knowing someone that thought they knew mushrooms and now have departed this world. Most here will tell you real quick that we do not mess with mushrooms. Had a FTF discussion about that this weekend, if memory serves me.

We do not run our own major operation due to the inability of anyone to pay what we are worth. As you have seen we often do day courses for groups, schools, historic sites, public parks as a donated service or for token pay. That is for nonprofit organizations. No pay, but I get into the local museum for free and have several local parks on my speed dial.

We have a couple of people here that are professional/part time guides offering training and back country services. They have a set rate and a clientelle they have developed for years, catering to people that can afford their services. If you had covered the list of headings on the forum you would have encountered the "butt sniffing grizzly" episode and the long term conversation on one of our respected members missing our annual jamboree this past weekend due to an accident among a group he was dealing with on the Appilation Trail.

What I should charge for a course and what someone is willing to pay a complete unknown entity for a course are widely different figures. When I work at my chosen career I am in a comfortable setting wth a computer and padded chair, a roof over my head and lunch is served daily in sanitary conditions. Going rate for my work as a professional instructor is $1000-$2000 a week. That is what the local/state government feels my training and experience are worth. One might get a different evaluation from my students,,,,or not.

I have more training time and more years experience in the woods than in the lecture hall and my survival skills training I usually do for free. If it becomes a job, and I have to come out of retirement and be somewhere at a certain time even if I do not feel good and the students and my boss are idoits I want my $2000.

Lastly, you better be concerned about that insurance, one slip and someone will own your butt for the rest of your life.

[Echo2]

It's a dangerous business walking out your front door....

[oldsoldier]

As far as insurance goes if someone over 18 signs a waiver saying they take full responsiblity for their actions, and accept the risk, I imagine I will be good. the paper I print the waivers on will cost under $5.Honestly without more interest perhaps I should look elsewhere.

First off depending on where you are a waiver may or may not suffice. Many states don't consider them 100% binding. If someone has signed a waiver and does something ON THEIR OWN that leads to injury or death and that action happened due to them FAILING to adhere to the rules and/or operating procedures of the training program them you should be protected. HOWEVER if it happens due to even un intentional negligence on the part of yourself/ someone affiliated with you/ or even a fellow student you very well could be liable. In the event of serious injury/ disablement/death, which can easily happen anywhere especially in a "wilderness" setting especially with several people who (the students) who have no idea what they ae doing. Then you are opening yourself to legal action by at worse the family members of the person. While it may be true that in the end you might be found not responsible for the injury(s)/ death, legal fee's would be enough to ruin you.

As to the location again sorry to not agree with you BUT, It is very unlikely some one you know or even worse someone that knows someone you know will agree to let you use their land for such an endevor. They could and likely would be held as responsible if not more so by someone injured. People sue others even friends on a daily basis for something as simple as tripping on a loose porch board, and win. If someone would allow that then I'm sorry to say they are not very smart.

As to a degree reading the posts I did not see anyone mentioning a degree, actually I have not even heard of a degree in survivalism techniques. Any body else heard of one? The real thing is finding a credentialed instructor like PVGoutdoors who is a wilderness guide that's fine, finding someone llike sourdough who has a phd. in living the life would be difficult.

Now if your still around to read this and haven't ran away because we were blunt with you about the idea because remember in your inital post on this thread you said yourself to partly quote you here,
even if the idea is feasible/ take any suggestions/ even if it's the worse idea ever. You asked we gave our honest and best input. Sorry if it doesn't meet with your ideoligy.

I'd love to do something similar, as a matter of fact quite some time ago we had a thread about dream jobs. Mine would be a outdoors/ wilderness related one like teaching at a survival school. But I'll be the first to admit that ain't gonna happen. So if you decide to stay and learn welcome aboard. If you decide to go.... see ya' and best of luck dude.

[Sourdough]

What I will pay is whatever you feel you could reasonably charge for a course. Honestly that depends more on your level of knowledge than mine.



No one has answered MY question either do you know how to do anything I asked or not?

I charge between $1,100.00 a day up to 1,600.00 a day. I have a 7- day minimum contract. Plus you pay your cost to get here & home. I will cover all cost after that. I am 66 years old, and have roughly 43 years of living in the wilderness experience, and 34 years as a licensed Registered Professional Guide. This is my slow time of year and if you are willing to be educated with-in 3 miles of my cabin, I would be willing to do 5 days for $3,500.00 (this is one on one training, I could train two for $ 5,500.00 for 5 days). I will guarantee your safe & healthy exit from the wilderness. You will supply your personal gear. Currently very nice weather: http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/sun...orecast/346733