book taught vrs. ?????

[randyt]

Many years ago a buddy of mine asked me if I knew the difference between me and him. I said what's that? He said that I was book taught and he wasn't. I really had to laugh, I've always have been a reader, my buddy has always struggled with reading. I going to throw a few examples out here. My granddad was a blacksmith he taught me many things about that subject plus other things. In addition to that I also read everything I could about blacksmithing. Does that make me book taught or ??? I'm a big fan of experience. A few years back my buddy and I were talking about a well known character. He brought up braintanning and how this fella was book taught. I got to thinking would it have mattered if a band of souix came along and taught him or if he read a book and pratised until his process produced a repeatable product. I've read many books on many subjects but never considered myself skilled in that subject unless I could do it. I'm trying to understand where my buddy is coming from, any thoughts?

[intothenew]

He's coming from where he has been, just as we all are. You share some of your personal travels in that post. We all look over the fence for what is smarter, faster, more efficient, easier, etc, etc. It has to work for you, or for someone you love, for it to fit.

[crashdive123]

In my military experience we did a lot of technical classroom learning, or book learning if you will. We then expanded our knowledge base with a process called theory to practice. In other words - take what we had learned and apply it to real situations in a training environment. Those two processes gave a great base to work from. Then add on top of that countless hours of doing and drilling, more classroom, more trainers, etc. and you wind up with some pretty solid skills.

I guess the point of that story was to say that knowledge without experience yields incomplete results just as experience without knowledge will do the same. Couple the two together with repetition and you become proficient.

[Winter]

Well said Crash.

I like to know the theory behind the tasks I'm learning to do. It's good to know "why" as opposed to just "how".

[kyratshooter]

Then there are all those little bits of knowledge that you learn from books and absolutely, positively do not ever need to put into real use!

And others you hope you never have to use.

[randyt]

Thanks for the comments fellas. One thing I didn't mention in my post is that my buddy feels that the guy that wasn't book taught had superior skills to the guy that was book taught.

Krat, you right about that LOL. I have a old reloading book by Phil Sharpe. There are write ups on powders that are no longer made but I still find reading about powders like kings semi-smokeless interesting LOL.

[JPGreco]

To me, it depends. Actual experience is always best. You can read all about a subject, but that doesn't mean you can do it. So in that regard, the guy who learned by doing does have the advantage over someone who just reads about it or has very little actual experience with it.

However, some people are ****, and will look down on those who don't necessarily learn via the "trial by fire" method. Some people I respect very much always say that "experience is the best teacher, especially when it is someone else's experience". It means that why repeat the mistakes others have made attempting something when you can learn from them. This holds true whether you learn from the person directly of from a book. This allows more time to expand on your skills without beginner mistakes.
An example for me would be timber framing. I would love to build a gazebo via timber framing methods, with all hidden screws (required for code). I could try to figure out all the connections on my own. I could learn by watching someone. I could also learn from a book. None of them really are superior. Given the choice, I would learn as many connections as possible via a book, and then come project time find someone who has experience as well. This would afford the most well rounded education on the subject.

Books have one major advantage. You can learn from a lot more people a lot faster from books. Say these all existed, but I could learn from Les, Bear, Cody, Mears, etc, etc, etc... from books over the course of a winter. Come spring, start to put into practice things I learned.

Hell, that's why I'm here in the first place. I've gotten quite a bit of book knowledge from this site since its not actual knowledge I learned in the bush from someone, but written accounts from someone who has been there.

So in closing, it depends on his attitude about it. Some people don't see the value in books. Some people think they are superior for learning by fire. The former is unfortunate, the latter is a dick.

[gryffynklm]

I have learned things from both book and from a teacher. They both have merit but like Randy and Crash say, book knowledge on doing things is incomplete without the practical practice. It will never become a skill unless you put it to use. I will never have enough practice on the many things I have researched.

[Kosuki]

Then there are all those little bits of knowledge that you learn from books and absolutely, positively do not ever need to put into real use!

And others you hope you never have to use.

True. I agree with that. Its like buying a gun for home defense, you have it and yet you hope you truly never have to put it to its intended use.

[BENESSE]

Well, it all depends on what you're trying to learn doesn't it? If it's nuclear physics you'll probably want to start with some books and build from there. You wouldn't have been picking it up by aprenticing for Einstein unless you were one of his brightest students to begin with. If you're building a fence, you can easily follow some instructions and really get good at it by trial and error.
In some cases you have to start with books then gain experience, in others, you can learn by just doing.
Bottom line: if you're really good at what you do, no one cares how you got there. Results still count.

[natertot]

I believe that it also depends on the individual. It was stated in the OP that his friend struggled with reading, that explains his displeasure for book taught. Everyone has their own method by which they learn best. I am visual, so I prefer pics, videos, and demonstration. No matter how you learn, it must be followed with experience. Who cares if you know all there is about a topic? If you can't use it, it is useless.

[randyt]

thanks for the comments.

I got to wondering, is book taught a real term? I could write a book about a subject that I know very little about but if I'm a good BSer it may read pretty good. A person could read that book and now be considered book taught. It would mean nothing until it was proven by experience. I'm a results orientated person. I don't care if how a person learned something as long as they can do the job. If it came from a book, mentor or if they licked it of the grass, results are results.

[Rick]

Who's to say the person that taught you taught you correctly? Just because you have a result doesn't mean it's the best or only way to get to the result. The same is true from a book. That tribe of Sioux only knows their way of doing it just like your grandad. Just like any of us. The learning source is not the doing. Anything that teaches, any source that conveys an idea is valid even if it is a bump on the head. Newton changed the world's view when he watched an apple fall from the tree. There were no books involved and no one taught him why the apple fell. The source conveys the theoretical (at least for the learner). It's up to the learner to then practice what they've learned as everyone else has said.

Where did your buddy learn math, English, history (right or wrong history), literature, reading or any of the other subjects that he took in school?

If you write that book and I attempt to do what you've outlined and fail because your method doesn't work then I've learned something in the process haven't I? Ever had a neighbor explain in detail how to do something and you learned you'll never do it that way again? Knowledge is knowledge no matter the source.

[natertot]

Well said, Rick. Also, when it comes to reading, everyone who picks up a book should consider its' source. If I am going to study fire, I am not going to read a book by an author who has done nothing more than tour the BIC factory. It is good to research and study, but ya got to considder your sources.

[Wildthang]

I always heard the term book smart where I was raised in Oklahome. Most people meant that when you were book smart, you normally had no common sense to go with it!

[Old Professor]

Well stated, Wildthang!! I am a retired college professor and some of the stupidest people I have ever had to deal with had doctoral degrees. As Wildthang said-Book Smart but no common sense!! Now, experience with out some book learning will leave you lacking in certain skills and abilities but you may be much more useful to yourself, your family and society that most of those Doctoral Degree holders I mentioned. Some of the smartest people with the most common sense that I have met had very little formal schooling! I prize common sense above college degrees, especially seeing first hand how worthless these degrees have become, but that is another thread.

[hunter63]

I have heard that those that can't "do" very well, "teach".......
So as a big reader, I like to read about a subject, mentally go thru the process, then do it...or at least try it.
Then I decide if I gonna do it again.........Doing it again and again, hopefully getting better, makes the process successful.

Also heard the book smart, no common sense comments as well....and seems to be true.
Supervised many degree holders, that acted like the were dumb as a box of rocks....I didn't call them dumb, just "acted" that way.....

[Rick]

I have heard that those that can't "do" very well, "teach".......

Hard to argue with the truth. Now, what can I teach you?

[intothenew]

Some Teachers perform from rote. Many Teachers have an endearing passion, and knowledge, for the particular subject. Few, but some of the best Teachers, teach how to learn.

To be taught how to learn is one of the most incredible experiences possible in this life. How to strike an arc, how to sharpen a knife, how to leaven bread, or how to solve an integral, are all just occupation opportunities unless the why and wherefores are explained and understood.

Even better Teachers teach how to be a good student, they are students themselves. Learning does not have to come from a text, but it expands the availability of Teachers immensely. To be taught, and learn self instruction, is the ultimate education. Trial and error, and scientific theory will be compared and evaluated for eons. Both have their place, but we each must not close our minds to either.

Use all five of your senses, in all of their capacity. Run that through the grey matter, and do what is best for you.

[sjj]

revised.....