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Thread: Incorrect information on WSF

  1. #1
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Default Incorrect information on WSF

    On the main page under "survival medicine" then "bite and strings" (strings?)


    "Note: If medical treatment is over one hour away, make an incision (no longer than 6 millimeters and no deeper than 3 millimeter) over each puncture, cutting just deep enough to enlarge the fang opening, but only through the first or second layer of skin. Place a suction cup over the bite so that you have a good vacuum seal. Suction the bite site 3 to 4 times. Use mouth suction only as a last resort and only if you do not have open sores in your mouth. Spit the envenomed blood out and rinse your mouth with water. This method will draw out 25 to 30 percent of the venom"


    This is incorrect and potentially harmful. Placing any suction over a venomous snakebite has not only shown to not help, but be potentially harmful. The top of the line extractors once used only removed 0.04- 0.2% of venom.

    "The conclusion of the study was that the
    Extractor did not reduce swelling, but resulted in further
    injury in some subjects. Specifically, circular
    lesions identical in size and shape to the Extractor suction
    cups developed where the devices had been applied.
    These lesions subsequently necrosed, sloughed, and
    resulted in tissue loss that prolonged healing by weeks."

    -Sean P. Bush, MD

    Just thought i'd throw that out there...


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    not to argue if its right or wrong, but if I get bit by a venomous snake and help is over an hour away (meaning I'm dead pretty much), I'm gonna probably attempt some form of bloodletting... lol

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    Senior Member wtrfwlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPGreco View Post
    not to argue if its right or wrong, but if I get bit by a venomous snake and help is over an hour away (meaning I'm dead pretty much), I'm gonna probably attempt some form of bloodletting... lol
    It's your body and your decision and I hope you never have to choose but you will more than likely be doing more harm than good. This is a medically proven fact but, hey I smoke too so take it for what it's worth right?
    My goal in life is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I'am.

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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wtrfwlr View Post
    It's your body and your decision and I hope you never have to choose but you will more than likely be doing more harm than good. This is a medically proven fact but, hey I smoke too so take it for what it's worth right?
    ^^^^ This

    Why would you want to cause more harm to yourself if you got bit?

    And if help is over an hour away and your bit by a snake with primarily hemotoxins, there's a good chance you're not "pretty much dead" I should add the vasy majority of venomous snakes in the US are primarily hemo, with the exception of coral snakes and C. scutulatus (mohave rattlesnake) Envenomation doesn't always occur either. WSF says "over half" of bites contain little or no venom. Odd statistic i'm curious to find out how they came up with, but the point is a good number of bites don't release venom. This depends on the species, size, temperment, and situation.
    Last edited by RandyRhoads; 08-15-2012 at 07:45 PM.

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    Senior Member wtrfwlr's Avatar
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    Good points.
    You obviously know much more about snakes than I do, but what I have been taught is that most snake bites to humans are from fear or defense and you are right to point out that there is many times no or very little venom dispensed by the snake.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Since the venom is a food gathering device more than a defense device the snake may not use it's venom. They control the injection by a muscle around the venom gland called the compressor muscle. Consider that most snakes in the U.S. are not venomous and the few that are may not envenomate and even if they do the chances of dying are slim. The best course is do not elevate the bite area above the heart if possible, try to control your heart rate and try to find a hospital as soon as possible or call 911. Remove any jewelry in case of swelling.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Uh definitly don't elevate it above the heart! Keep it below, you're trying to slow venom to the heart not accelerate it!

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You are correct, of course. My bad. I've edited the post to reflect the correct information. Thanks for catching that!!!!

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    Senior Member el-amigo's Avatar
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    Thank you for the information. I will look up the same info for the European snakes too. I don't want any surprise in the woods.
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    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    You gotta remember,that the information the homepage is based on,is quite literally taken from the Military survival handbook,so the information that you are reading there was correct information when that book was written,however medical information is ALWAYS changing when they discover newer or better or just plain safer ways of doing things.
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  11. #11
    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    That makes sense, but is there anyway we can update that information to keep it more current?

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    Senior Member nell67's Avatar
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    That I have no idea about??? Chris.Rick,Crash,or Sarge? Anyone have an idea on how to update the information on the homepage?
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    Nell, MLT (ASCP)

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    That would have to be a Chris fix.
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    Senior Member el-amigo's Avatar
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    In this case it was a nice catch!
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    Quote Originally Posted by nell67 View Post
    You gotta remember,that the information the homepage is based on,is quite literally taken from the Military survival handbook,so the information that you are reading there was correct information when that book was written,however medical information is ALWAYS changing when they discover newer or better or just plain safer ways of doing things.
    This, its literally taken word for word from a US Army manual.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    NO!!

    Tell me it is not true!!!

    Uncorrect information on the internet???

    An Army manual that has not been updated???

    How can one suffer two blows of such magnitude in one event?
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.
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    Senior Member RandyRhoads's Avatar
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    Hahahahaha....



    ...... Just thought maybe you'd like your site to not have potentially harmful information.

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