Are Sig rifles any good?

[Phaedrus]

Just curious if any of you folks have any experience with the newer SigArms rifles. Years ago Sig's were expensive and universally praised as quality guns. I was picking up some stuff at Wally-World tonite and saw a Sig rifle in .223 for around $800-$900 (don't recall which). My recent research has yielded divergent opinions; Gunblast has praised them recently but I've also read that QC has declined sharply over the last few years. At first blush a Sig AR-type rifle available cheaper than a Sig 9 mm was a few years ago give me pause. Still, I'm curious what you guys and gals think.

Btw, what do you folks think of DPMS? They seem to be decent bare-bones guns but it might cost more to get a $600 AR and have to replace 1/2 the parts than it would to just get a little more tricked rifle to begin with (eg RRA Elite Operator II is just $1k).

[hunter63]

I was kinda waiting for some comments on this.......Nada?

Anyway seems every swinging Richard company has a "New, el-neato, tricko, magic AR clone", out now....To many choices, for the money....all over the map.

Seems the accessories are what sell them these days.

Talked to a guy that was selling AR uppers, parts, most anything including receivers and complete rifles......and asked the question "How Much"?

Answer "How much you wanna spend?"

I told him that I had seen many claims on the interweb, where guys claim they can build one for $400 bucks or less.....His answer was "BS, they would have to steal it"

I really can't get interested in EBR's....is that weird?

[crashdive123]

Not ignoring the OP - I've just got no experience with them.

[kyratshooter]

Probably would find more on an AR or SIG forum.

They have those too I have heard.

[Phaedrus]

I suppose Rick would probably just complain that they don't float! Not the ideal choice for canoeing...

[Phaedrus]

Here's the thing- I really want to pick up an E.B.R. this summer. The gun at the top of my dream list is the FN SCAR, maybe the 17/H. Overall I like that it was designed from the ground up as a piston gun, not retrofitted. So no carrier tilt, etc. But a SCAR 16 is around $2,400, and the SCAR 17 even higher (plus extra mags are still unobtainium). Part of me thinks going kinda cheap would be okay since it's my first AR-pattern. On the other hand, no point in getting a super cheapie that will need $500 in parts to bring up to what I want. The Stag 8 seems like a pretty good deal on a high quality piston gun, but it's still around $1400. I could get an entry level gun but once I added the stuff I absolutely know I want I'd have been better off just buying a more "tricked out" model to start.

The sweet spot seems to be around $1k. For a DI gun I think the Rock River Elite Operator II has virtually every feature I'd want in a gun with nothing I don't. So in that same general price range there are a few guns that also seem to hit the general mark, some for slightly less, some for slightly more. The S&W M&P looks pretty good, as does the Sig. I don't want to give up functional reliability for a few buck, though. I will say that it's not a big deal if it won't resist sand, mud, etc.- I would use it mainly for plinking & target practice, with double duty as a home defense firearm. So no extreme conditions, just reliable when clean.

Every few hundred bucks more, obviously, delivers a little bit more...but I gotta draw the line at some point.

[Phaedrus]

BTW, unless I'm misinformed, one draw of the Stag Arms is that a 300 AAC Blackout barrel should be a single replacement. I'm really liking what I've seen about that round.

[Rick]

The RRA EO2 is a fine weapon in my opinion. I don't profess to have any expertise in the area of weapons but I know what I like and I like it. There are myriad accessories if you want and extra mags in all sizes are available for it. Plus, they will build it just about the way you want it.

[kyratshooter]

I love the concept of the .300 blackout.

It only took 65 years to develop a cartridge almost as good as the 7.62x39.

It seems that no matter how much we advance our technology we just keep reinventing the .30 carbine.

[Phaedrus]

I love the concept of the .300 blackout.

It only took 65 years to develop a cartridge almost as good as the 7.62x39.

It seems that no matter how much we advance our technology we just keep reinventing the .30 carbine.

The 7.62x39 is rimmed and consistently fails when adapted to Western Bloc guns. It requires goofy curved mags that don't feed modern ammo well. It's the 30/30 Win, 100 years later with a different bullet. The .30 carbine has always been a cap gun, a good replacement for the .22 LR. Just due to the math of the round it never had any possibility of being an effective round. The Blackout really changes the rule, IMOHO. It operates flawlessly thru (otherwise) stock guns with no other mod. Blackout rounds can me made from 5.56 casings.

From the research I've done, the Blackout nearly duplicates the commie AK balistics while being around 1 MOA accuracy with nearly every weight...and in piston guns, being as reliable as the AK.

No axe to grind on my part. No one pays me! I've had AKs but no AR's. In my experience the AK platform has some serious flaws. I'm anxious to see if the M4 platform addresses these issues in the newest incarnation.

[kyratshooter]

When did they install the rim on the 7.62x39?

The accuracy of the AR over the AK is a matter of tolerance in the weapon, not necesasarily the ammo. Although one might expect a specialty ammo to have beter QC than gazillion+ unit runs of combloc AK fodder.

I carried an M16 for my share of miles, gave it back and came home. I have never owned one and never will. If I ever use one again it will be because it was lying on the ground and I needed it at that moment so the $1,000 price tags mean nothing to me. Nor do any of the trick cartridges now being shoved down it's barrel.

But if they had done it right the first time all the firearms sections on a thousand forums would have nothing to specualte and prognosticate over.

[hunter63]

I think the Com-bloc just likes evil looking curved magazines.........
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[natertot]

If you are interested in .223 semi-autos, have you checked out the Ruger Mini 14? It is a scaled version of the M-14 to shoot .223 instead of .308. I shot the m14 and the m16 in the Navy. M14 was much more accurate and reliable, just heavier. I would think the Mini14 would have the accuracy and reliability with the light weight and less kick of .223. Kind of a best of both worlds kinda thing. I don't know, but just my thought.

[Phaedrus]

Okay, I think it's called semi-rimmed. I still hear nothing but bad about that round in M4-pattern guns. No knock on the AK but I doubt I'll ever own one again. I'm certainly not anti-AK, just not a fan. In any event I don't care to go down the AK vs M-16 path for the ten millionth time, just looking for anyone that can speak from experience about the Sigs. I don't care if you can't bury it in mud and then shoot it. I'm not gonna bury mine in mud, I'm gonna lean it in the corner of my bedroom!

I've owned Mini-14s before and didn't like them. Mine shot very poorly, accuracy wise. My understanding is that they've improved the rifle a lot since I last owned on in the late 80's/early 90's. I don't like the mag release at all but eventually I might pick one up and try it again.

I suppose if I ever get a 300 Blackout I'd be better off getting one chambered that way instead of converting. Daniel Defense has one that's supposed to be pretty good. FWIW the huge advantage of the 300 Blackout in an M4-pattern gun is that the round runs flawlessly thru the same mags at the 5.56 version, meaning all the 30 round PMags I can carry for $20 each.

Maybe I should skip the Sig and just pony up the extra hundo for the RRA. It's got pretty much all the features I would want anyway.

[kyratshooter]

Look at the diagram.

the rim mikes 11.35
the case body mikes 11.35

The difference between 11.35 and 11.35 is ZERO!

That makes the 7.62x39 a RIMLESS cartridge. A simple definition of a basic firearms concept.

No basic knowledge, $1,000 for a rifle and then guibble over magazine cost. No rationale left here, I am gone.

[Simple Survivor]

The Sig 556 is a nice rifle, but there aren't a lot of aftermarket options if you're into that kind of thing. Accurate and reliable. Because of the twist of the rifling, it prefers heavier grain ammo. It's a good rifle, but honestly, not great. They're a little front heavy unless you get the shorter versions. (forgot what they're called.) honestly, you'd get more for your money with a good AR or AK. Don't get the Sig chambered in 7.62x39, very unreliable which is rare for Sig. Love their handguns though..
Oh, I also wouldn't go for the harder to find ammo types for a prolonged survival situation. Stick with the calibers that are readily available. .556. 7.62x39, .308. etc

[Phaedrus]

A bit of research has me thinking the Sig probably isn't the way to go, nor is the Rock River. Sounds like for the same money the BMC rifles are much better. Another contender for me might be the M&P 15 Sporter. Again, it's not going to be a hardcore battle gun, just a plinker that could pull double duty for home defense.

[Phaedrus]

Look at the diagram.

the rim mikes 11.35
the case body mikes 11.35

The difference between 11.35 and 11.35 is ZERO!

That makes the 7.62x39 a RIMLESS cartridge. A simple definition of a basic firearms concept.

No basic knowledge, $1,000 for a rifle and then guibble over magazine cost. No rationale left here, I am gone.

I have basic knowledge, but I'm not an AK guy. You're right, and I tripped over my reloading manual. No offense meant, PM outbound.

Peace out-

-P-

[winggunner]

They are if They arething like their Handguns

[glockcop]

The Sig 556 is a fine rifle. My only quibble is the thinish barrel that will heat up FAST and degrades accuracy at distance. Not that you need extreme accuracy from a combat rifle but I have a thing for H Bar profile barrels. I have ALOT of experience with S&W MP15's (both DI and piston) and COLT AR's. All perform admirably. Don't fall for the DI and Piston back and forth garbage. If you clean your weapon as you should and don't run 1000 continuous rapid fire rounds, it all does not matter. TRUST ME. Today's AR's are more than trust worthy. There are guys who find it fashionable to trash talk the platform. Yeah, the first ones had issues but that has long been resolved. For every story you hear that bad mouths the AR and it's ammo, you can find ten more that praise it. I work with a couple of "sand box vets" and they don't agree with the AR trash talk at all. Their stance is "AR maintainance is not hard and they work when cared for". I agree. My dad and his close friend are both Viet Nam vets and neither saw fit to complain about the AR platform. I have personally abused these weapons in all types of crud and they flat out run, period. The SIG however is a totally different beast and not an AR clone. I recommend AR's because parts are easy to find and customizing is limitless. If you just have to have a piston weapon, S&W MP15 piston guns run great and the quality is better than most without going full blown custom. To answer the question, "are SIG rifles any good?" Well, do pigeons sh*t on freshly waxed cars?. You betcha!