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Thread: Can we honestly talk about this........

  1. #61
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    LOL....Yeah, Good luck with that....
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge47 View Post
    Farmer Jane, Crabapple Plum, the thing that helps identify a troll is their refusal to do an intro or give out any info on themselves while expecting members on here to advise them on the questions they ask. You ladies gave such great intros that I would never consider you trolls...just don't ask to see the hong! We save that for trolls!
    Unfortunately, I think I ran across it while reading old threads. See Im Reading, Reading, Reading, (ha ha) So get ready for my questions.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildthang View Post
    Well all I know, is when you ask a question on this forum, you immediately get a whole lot of matter of fact answers and advice, and a lot of times, the tone is close to being stated in a demeaning way. This is what a new member percieves because that is how it felt when I joined. Fortunately I have stuck around long enough to learn that the members here are just trying to give good advice, and help others even when the truth hurts.
    Many of the members here are very knowleagable, and have a huge amount of experience, so once you get to know them, you get used to it. I think that the survivor breed of people on here are a little brash because most people that love the wilderness, nature, and places with few people, are also the type that have little tolerance for other people. Not always but in general!
    So in my humble opinion, we should go alittle easier on new members, and poeple that have the dreams of living in the wilderness, and getting away from society. Most of them really dont understand the challenges, so when we lambaste them with our brash opinions, I am afraid thet instead of really listening to us, they will simply join another forum where some people may encourage their foolish dreams, or simply write us off and a bunch of know it all's, and go ahead with their plans.
    So where is the majic line, I really dont know. What I do know is that when I first joined, I felt like I was surrounded by the biggest bunch of critics I have ever encountered. Of course I feel differently now, but to new members, we really come off in an extremely brash attitude because we either go totally off topic and thread jack a thread, or we more or less insinuate that they are dummasses, simply by the tone in which we reply.
    Right on Wildthang...You took the words I've been holding back, for quite sometime, right out of me mouth!!!!

    Really,... sometimes you guys really PMO with the way you treat the folks that just want to run off into the wilderness. I for one was one of these people and little more undertsand from a site called Wilderness Survival would be expected! Not everyone thinks the modern world is that great and some of us hate it with a passion that is irrivesable. For what ever reason we need get get out!

    For years I was riticuled be everyone. Family. freinds, school counselers all called me crazy, and told me I should pull my head otta me azz and wake up! Finally at 32yrs old my family got together to help me, and had me sent to the nevous hospital for evaluation. 2weeks later they told my family there's nothing at all wrong with me, I was different and they should just accept it! They told me I should move to the PNW...
    lots of folks just like me out there.

    Just one more thing and I'll shut up. I asked the doc, I talked to 5 of them, the evaluation was very thurough, "So am I crazy doc?" She smiled a said "Ted, you are one of the saneist people I've ever met" I cried like a little girl....never heard that before.
    I'm a simple man, of simple means, turned my back on the machines, to follow my dreams.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Celticwarrior's Avatar
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    Nobody wants to PO anyone or drive them away from the site. But when people come on and naively say "I want to chuck it all and run off to the woods", there is something deeply wrong in their lives that they are running away FROM, and they really need to deal with that rather than put themselves into a dangerous, likely deadly, situation out in the boondocks. No amount of advice or on-the-fly training you get from the internet or a forum like this will keep you alive out there in the wilderness indefinitely. It might stop you from freezing to death, or tell you how to recognize a dangerous or edible plant, or some other tidbit, but living out in the wild with little or no real world survival experience is asking to die out there.

    Just like Chris McCandless and others, a vague idea about backpacking and hiking, with a little woodslore and hunting experience is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM going to keep you alive out there. Nature is unforgiving and cruel, and doesn't care about your problems at work, or with your love life, or how much you really wanted to be an engineer, or whatever. It doesn't care that you thought you knew enough to live out there, and it won't give you any quarter when the storms roll in, or the snows fall, or the wolves and bears and pumas come sniffing around for a meal. It won't stop you from drinking crystal clear water teeming with deadly pathogens, or keep you from building your shelter under a widowmaker deadfall.

    It doesn't give a d@mn about you. But WE do! We don't want to see someone go out there half-cocked and get killed. We don't want to read an article or a book about your tragic life and death out in the wilderness. WE want to tell you the truth, right up front, that you are 99% certainly NOT ready to go out and live like Jerimiah Johnson. We want it to be a wakeup call, so that you know it is DEADLY SERIOUS.

    Most of us have been in the woods for decades, on and off. We camp, hunt, hike, fish, backpack, and live for days or weeks out there, in all sorts of weather and environments. Some of us have military experience, and have taken training in extreme places specifically for the purpose of staying alive regardless of where you are sent. We KNOW what it is like out there, and want to pass that knowledge on to you, as a newb, to keep you from making mistakes we have made or choices that are likely going to get you killed. We don't want to be @$$holes about it, and we don't want to hurt people's feelings, but sometimes you need a tap on the shoulder, sometimes you need a swift kick in the @ss, and sometimes you need to be smacked in the head and asked "Are you outta your MIND?".

    Wanting to go out and ENJOY the wilderness is one thing, a short term experiment and build a cabin or live like a mountain man for example. When someone says they want to PERMANENTLY leave civilization and go live in the woods, we know there is something seriously WRONG and if we don't say something, this person might go wandering off and DIE. No one here wants to be responsible for that.

    When people say "Good Luck With That", that means, "Goodbye, walking corpse. I hope you have a will." It is usually said when someone makes it clear that they don't want to be talked out of this decision, and the only thing they want to hear is that they will be just fine and life will be good living out there in the brush with the squirrels and rabbits. They don't want to hear that they will likely die of one or another horrible things, or they will be running back to civilization within a month because they ran out of all the things they brought with them and have no idea how to do without or make do with things they could make out there. People today are NOT aboriginal tribesmen, with elders teaching them from birth how to do all the things they need to survive. They aren't trained by people who have DONE all of these things all their lives. They don't have the support of an entire village of other natives who have generations of wisdom, who have multiple hunter/gatherers, who have tons of stores supplies, and who have many people to do the work necessary to stay alive which one person alone will NEVER be able to do. Someone who goes out to live wild, all by their lonesome, isn't going to last for long. They simply lack the tools, the knowledge, the WISDOM and the support to stay out there for very long. Even the old hermits in the deserts don't stay in their caves forever. They come into towns when they get sick, or to dumpster dive, or to go to a shelter when the winds get cold and the arthritis gets too bad. No man is an island. No matter how bad things are here, where you THINK it is somehow better to just run away, TRUST ME it can be a WHOLE LOT WORSE out there! We just try to spare people the pain and suffering of finding that out for themselves.

    IF you think you are ready to chuck it all and go live somewhere in the wilderness, try it for a month, with a backup plan and let people know where you are. Check in with them regularly to let them know you aren't dead. Learn from your mistakes about what skills you lack and what you need. But DON'T just come here and think that a couple of posts on building a fire or making a shelter are going to be enough to save you when you get out there by yourself and run into trouble. A lot of people die out there every year. Don't be one of them.
    "A free citizenry should never abide a government that seeks control over it's people rather than service to them"

  5. #65
    Member MiddleWolf's Avatar
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    I've learned a lot from this and the other 2 forums I go to. Not once has it come across to me that those giving the advice or answering a question are stroking their egos. I guess it's the fact that most of them have actually done the things they advise on and that's different then saying "well maybe you could do this or that, I don't know". It's the fact that most of the knowledge passed on here is based on real experience or they're doing a real good job of faking it. But, with the advent of digital photography and you tube, they can feed their egos if they want, they've backed up what they say. And we've seen the ones that don't.
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  6. #66
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Wait a minute...there are other forums?!

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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool My 2 cents....

    When I was 21 I had a best friend who decided that 2 of my brothers and I were going to go "looking for gold" with him in two places, Arizona's "Lost Dutchman Mind," and Alaska, which was still open to homesteading at that time . He laid down all kinds of equipment lists, mostly a crap-load of weapons, bought a White's Metal Detector, and bought every type of "treasure magazine" that came out as study material. He never set foot out the door, and died a few years ago from Bone Cancer. He'd even bought some "gold-bearing land" in Colorado but never left Iowa to visit it. Looking back I can say that I sincerely believe that if we would have went to those places that he 1st wanted to go we'd be lucky to still be alive! It was all a dream, but reality wasn't involved in most of it.

    I, to, have a distaste for society, only family comes into my home, mainly because of my wife's health problems. I only have a couple of close friends outside of family. If I could I'd love to have a nice home somewhere off the beaten path with my own way of generating all of my electricity, planting, hunting, and fishing for my food; and so on. However, even with all of that, if I were 35 years younger I still wouldn't go out into the wilderness to live alone. Running away never solves anything. CW is right on the money, if a Newbie comes on here looking for advice to run away form their problems I can't help them! Yes, our pioneer forefathers lived that kind of life, then set about making progress to make that hard life easier. Something to think about.
    SARGE
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  8. #68
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticwarrior View Post
    Nobody wants to PO anyone or drive them away from the site. But when people come on and naively say "I want to chuck it all and run off to the woods", there is something deeply wrong in their lives that they are running away FROM, and they really need to deal with that rather than put themselves into a dangerous, likely deadly, situation out in the boondocks. No amount of advice or on-the-fly training you get from the internet or a forum like this will keep you alive out there in the wilderness indefinitely. It might stop you from freezing to death, or tell you how to recognize a dangerous or edible plant, or some other tidbit, but living out in the wild with little or no real world survival experience is asking to die out there.

    Just like Chris McCandless and others, a vague idea about backpacking and hiking, with a little woodslore and hunting experience is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM going to keep you alive out there. Nature is unforgiving and cruel, and doesn't care about your problems at work, or with your love life, or how much you really wanted to be an engineer, or whatever. It doesn't care that you thought you knew enough to live out there, and it won't give you any quarter when the storms roll in, or the snows fall, or the wolves and bears and pumas come sniffing around for a meal. It won't stop you from drinking crystal clear water teeming with deadly pathogens, or keep you from building your shelter under a widowmaker deadfall.

    It doesn't give a d@mn about you. But WE do! We don't want to see someone go out there half-cocked and get killed. We don't want to read an article or a book about your tragic life and death out in the wilderness. WE want to tell you the truth, right up front, that you are 99% certainly NOT ready to go out and live like Jerimiah Johnson. We want it to be a wakeup call, so that you know it is DEADLY SERIOUS.

    Most of us have been in the woods for decades, on and off. We camp, hunt, hike, fish, backpack, and live for days or weeks out there, in all sorts of weather and environments. Some of us have military experience, and have taken training in extreme places specifically for the purpose of staying alive regardless of where you are sent. We KNOW what it is like out there, and want to pass that knowledge on to you, as a newb, to keep you from making mistakes we have made or choices that are likely going to get you killed. We don't want to be @$$holes about it, and we don't want to hurt people's feelings, but sometimes you need a tap on the shoulder, sometimes you need a swift kick in the @ss, and sometimes you need to be smacked in the head and asked "Are you outta your MIND?".

    Wanting to go out and ENJOY the wilderness is one thing, a short term experiment and build a cabin or live like a mountain man for example. When someone says they want to PERMANENTLY leave civilization and go live in the woods, we know there is something seriously WRONG and if we don't say something, this person might go wandering off and DIE. No one here wants to be responsible for that.

    When people say "Good Luck With That", that means, "Goodbye, walking corpse. I hope you have a will." It is usually said when someone makes it clear that they don't want to be talked out of this decision, and the only thing they want to hear is that they will be just fine and life will be good living out there in the brush with the squirrels and rabbits. They don't want to hear that they will likely die of one or another horrible things, or they will be running back to civilization within a month because they ran out of all the things they brought with them and have no idea how to do without or make do with things they could make out there. People today are NOT aboriginal tribesmen, with elders teaching them from birth how to do all the things they need to survive. They aren't trained by people who have DONE all of these things all their lives. They don't have the support of an entire village of other natives who have generations of wisdom, who have multiple hunter/gatherers, who have tons of stores supplies, and who have many people to do the work necessary to stay alive which one person alone will NEVER be able to do. Someone who goes out to live wild, all by their lonesome, isn't going to last for long. They simply lack the tools, the knowledge, the WISDOM and the support to stay out there for very long. Even the old hermits in the deserts don't stay in their caves forever. They come into towns when they get sick, or to dumpster dive, or to go to a shelter when the winds get cold and the arthritis gets too bad. No man is an island. No matter how bad things are here, where you THINK it is somehow better to just run away, TRUST ME it can be a WHOLE LOT WORSE out there! We just try to spare people the pain and suffering of finding that out for themselves.

    IF you think you are ready to chuck it all and go live somewhere in the wilderness, try it for a month, with a backup plan and let people know where you are. Check in with them regularly to let them know you aren't dead. Learn from your mistakes about what skills you lack and what you need. But DON'T just come here and think that a couple of posts on building a fire or making a shelter are going to be enough to save you when you get out there by yourself and run into trouble. A lot of people die out there every year. Don't be one of them.
    I hear you and understand completely! But not eveyone who wants to do this has issues! For some it's a calling an instinctual drive if you will. The right way to live!!!!

    They're looking for support and freindship, like minded people , a tribe to learn from! Instead of "Good luck with that." How about "Welcome, it's more than possible with proper training, but it is illegal if you don't own the land and you will still need to pay your taxes!!!! Not to mention its very difficult all alone because you will get lonley!"

    Besides no one man knows what another man can tolerate, or the length he is willing to go to find balance in his own life.

    If your last paragragh is directed directly at me, read all my post starting at #1 I hate repeating myself.
    I'm a simple man, of simple means, turned my back on the machines, to follow my dreams.

  9. #69
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I hear you and understand completely! But not eveyone who wants to do this has issues! For some it's a calling an instinctual drive if you will. The right way to live!!!!

    They're looking for support and freindship, like minded people , a tribe to learn from! Instead of "Good luck with that." How about "Welcome, it's more than possible with proper training, but it is illegal if you don't own the land and you will still need to pay your taxes!!!! Not to mention its very difficult all alone because you will get lonley!"

    Besides no one man knows what another man can tolerate, or the length he is willing to go to find balance in his own life.

    If your last paragragh is directed directly at me, read all my post starting at #1 I hate repeating myself.
    Ted - I would submit to you that those that have come here as you have described have received all of the support and encouragement that they can handle. It is when they come here telling us all how society sucks (maybe it does for them) and that they are going to run off wit no experience, no equipment, no time to learn and no tolerance for solid and sound advice.

    Those that are willing to listen do get solid advice. Those that came here to tell us that none of us know what we're talking about and we're jealous because we want to squash their dreams get what they get.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    And I hate to break this to you but no one here can P you off. You can only allow yourself to become P off. They are your emotions and as such they are your responsibility. I would also submit that whatever words were posted is only part of the story. Generally, folks get upset by their own thoughts about a subject. Words are just words. The only power they have is what you give them.

  11. #71
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool And Ted...

    Ted, I believe that you are somebody who could live the same life as Sourdough and Wild Woman; but that's because of your experience and knowledge. I have never put you in the same class as some of these newbies that come on here with their unrealistic and immature ideology. I will never "enable" somebody to go out and break the law by trespassing on Private property or violate the laws set in place in the State Parks and National Forests. You might remember those two guys in Canada that came on here years back bragging about how they were going to go out into the Boreal forest in October for 30 days with nothing more than their knives and the clothes on their backs! Almost every member at that time tried to talk sense into them but they refused to listen. They went out, and lasted 15 days before they crawled back home, wet, hungry, and discouraged. There is a right way to do what you're talking about and a wrong way. Most of the times we get the latter.
    SARGE
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  12. #72
    Senior Member Celticwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted View Post
    I hear you and understand completely! But not eveyone who wants to do this has issues! For some it's a calling an instinctual drive if you will. The right way to live!!!!

    They're looking for support and freindship, like minded people , a tribe to learn from! Instead of "Good luck with that." How about "Welcome, it's more than possible with proper training, but it is illegal if you don't own the land and you will still need to pay your taxes!!!! Not to mention its very difficult all alone because you will get lonley!"

    Besides no one man knows what another man can tolerate, or the length he is willing to go to find balance in his own life.

    If your last paragragh is directed directly at me, read all my post starting at #1 I hate repeating myself.

    Nope, not speaking directly to you there. Just using the generic 'you' to mean those folks reading the post who were in that category of thinking that heading off into the Great Wide Open would be a feasible way to deal with their problems. As to knowing what a man is willing to do or endure? No, I don't know that. I don't have those kinds of omniscient powers, but knowing what Nature is capable of doing and knowing what surviving in it can entail in some of the worst environments I have ever seen, I can say that most folks, as in 99.89%, won't live through them without a support staff and a warehouse full of gear. Living through a bad night in the woods, or a stormy couple of days huddled in your car, is nothing compared to looking out at an unforgiving wasteland and realizing there is nowhere to go and no one coming to help you, day after day after day. For every guy like Dick Proennike who can go out and build an Alaska cabin and fill it with homemade goodies all by himself, there are hundreds of thousands of folks who would simply not survive a month up there in a similar situation.
    "A free citizenry should never abide a government that seeks control over it's people rather than service to them"

  13. #73
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Another thing....

    Quote Originally Posted by Celticwarrior View Post
    For every guy like Dick Proennike who can go out and build an Alaska cabin and fill it with homemade goodies all by himself, there are hundreds of thousands of folks who would simply not survive a month up there in a similar situation.
    A reminder that even DP had to call it quits when he got to old to continue. He came back to the "lower 48" and spent his last days in a nursing home. It catches up to all of us. CW, I would have to say that I would more than likely be one of those in the 99,98% class!
    SARGE
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  14. #74
    Senior Member Ted's Avatar
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    Guys, guys, guys , don't get me wrong this place is great! But I have on more than one occasion seen the site rip into people, and then they where gone! They don't stick around long enough ,like Wildthag did to reilize it's just tough love!!!!

    Rick, if words are just words and nobodys responsible for the way your words make them feel, why do you suppose it's against forum rules to talk politics and religion? Chris doesn't want anybody to get PO'd maybe?

    Nobody wants to be made fun of or riticuled, and there are some members, long time members that just sit back and wait for the chance. I've had it done to me! SD's not one though!
    I'm a simple man, of simple means, turned my back on the machines, to follow my dreams.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted
    Chris doesn't want anybody to get PO'd maybe?


    That's exactly right. He doesn't. But that doesn't negate the fact that the listener has the power to give words authority or not. It doesn't matter what you call me. If I choose not to take offense then I've chosen not to give your words power and to not give you any authority over me. Folks find it a lot easier to blame someone else so you hear the comment, "He made me mad." That only occurs if you give up responsibility for your own emotions. If anyone cares to follow that advice they will find life a whole lot more enjoyable. Since they won't allow folks to "make them mad" they'll be a lot happier.

    As for "ripping into people", I suppose that depends on your definition but I think the mods are pretty good about controlling name calling and personal attacks. One of us usually steps in and reminds folks to challenge the idea not the person, ask folks to agree to disagree or even lock threads if necessary. All bets are off on trolls.

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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Ted, you may have noticed that the tone of the forum has changed lately. Take this last troll, for example. Members on here gave him every opportunity to clarify what he was looking for. He not only ignored many of the questions I and others asked of him, but then acted like a know-it-all and HE ripped into the membership here. Nobody had ripped into him at all, but instead gave him sound advice regarding the questions that he asked, yet he chose to ignore the answers because it wasn't what he wanted to hear. Posting the response "good luck with that" is not "ripping into people." It's a polite way of ending your side of the conversation WITHOUT ripping into them. You may have noticed some things in the past, but the site has grown beyond that. Members on here will oft-times totally disagree with one another on some topics. A good example is both the theater shooting in Denver and the "casting call" for the reality show regarding homesteading. Several members, two were other mods disagreed with me on my viewpoint of these two topics, yet we conducted ourselves like adults, respected the other person's viewpoint even though we may have totally disagreed with it, and left the name-calling to the politicians. We still respect the right of each other to have an opinion. However how foolish would it be for me to ask you, for example, a question on knife making, then berate you for you're answer? You have far more knowledge on that subject than I do. And if I already know enough to think your answer was incorrect why did I bother to ask in the 1st place? Again, there is a right way and a wrong way to go about something. Fighting with the more experienced members on here is NOT the right way.
    SARGE
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  17. #77
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celticwarrior View Post
    For every guy like Dick Proennike who can go out and build an Alaska cabin and fill it with homemade goodies all by himself, there are hundreds of thousands of folks who would simply not survive a month up there in a similar situation.
    I don't think so. It honestly is not a big deal to build a cabin and furniture, and I don't understand this myth about it being particularly difficult in Alaska. In the winter, you just put more clothes on. At Proennekes time, help was a radio call away. Nowadays, you press your ELT.

    If Proenneke had gone there without a clue of how to use tools, how to fish and hunt, the willingness to work, and without the buddies who helped him out big time by flying gear and supplies in, he wouldn't have lasted a month either. So all that enabled him (and the other bush people I know - and they are still out there, it's just that not everyone writes a book about it) to do it was:

    -basic tool knowledge
    -basic hunting and fishing skills
    -a good work ethic
    -a backup network of friends
    -a place to do go do it (one huge challenge nowadays because it's extremly difficult to buy remote land out in the bush)
    -money
    -and most of all, enough desire and passion to go do it, and to do it right (leave the rose-tinted glasses at home and acquire the basic skills before you go).

    IMO it's only the last point that prevents all those dreamers out there from putting their money where their mouth is. It's plain old scary to try something new, something that's not as common anymore as it was 100 years, heck even 50 years ago. But the rest of it all is really just common sense, the skills needed are totally basic and easy to acquire - if I can do it, anyone reading this right now can do it.

    Here's some blogs of people who are out there doing it, have been doing it for years already, each in their own fashion:

    http://thehappytrappers.blogspot.com/
    http://wildernessdweller.ca/
    http://www.nuktessli.ca/journal/inde...wsletters.html
    http://manuelaz.blogspot.com/
    Actions speak louder than words

  18. #78
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    @ WildWoman - I don't disagree with what you've written. The angst on this forum comes in from time to time when we get a new member that wants to run off with no gear, no experience and no plan. That being said, they expect advice on how to accomplish this venture.

    For those that come here with a basic plan - they receive all of the advice and encouragement that they are willing to accept.
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  19. #79
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    The angst on this forum comes in from time to time when we get a new member that wants to run off with no gear, no experience and no plan. That being said, they expect advice on how to accomplish this venture.
    Oh I know and totally agree.
    Just couldn't keep my mouth shut about the comparison to Dick Proennecke and making a home in the woods.
    Actions speak louder than words

  20. #80
    Senior Member Celticwarrior's Avatar
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    The biggest things Dick had going for him are exactly what we tell people who want to just run off half-cocked. He HAD a support network of people helping him (the neighbor who let him stay at his cabin while he built his, the guy who flew in his supplies all the time, his family back in the lower 48 who he stayed in contact with, etc.); He had prior experience in Alaska (he had been there often as a young man, he had also prepped a lot of stuff for his move the year before, etc.); and he had a lifetime of experience in using old fashioned hand tools and doing things himself, including making items from whatever he had on hand. His inventiveness and willingness to do whatever it took to survive were a big key to his success.

    The other thing that differs him from many people who say they want to run off to the woods is that he came from a much less squemish time. If there was a bug in your water, you picked it out and continued drinking. If your bread had mold, you ripped that part off and continued to eat it. When it was 15 below outside, you were happy that your cabin was 40 degrees farenheit. Many people faced with even minor adversities will up and quit rather than deal with them and keep going.

    I agree that nothing Dick did is superhuman or in any way out of the ability range of people today. Plenty of people go to remote areas and build a life that is simple and fulfilling. There is a BIG difference between someone with the knowledge, resources and skills to go out and homestead and someone who wants to play Jeremiah Johnson or Grizzly Adams out in the woods with just what they have in their packs. Two totally diffferent mindsets. My only comparison to DP was that he had a LOT of skills and was very self-sufficient going out there and building the life that he did. You have to be. I assume you are much the same way. You probably have a lot of skills and abilities that you take for granted as 'common sense', but that are anything BUT common. Not everyone possesses them, and the learning curve is steep. It took me a lot of years to learn things that I do every day in my homestead, and I am STILL learning. Trying to do that while you are struggling to survive out in the boonies in a primitive camp is not something I recommend to anyone without a well-thought out exit plan or a good support network of people who can help you with things that you personally don't know a lot about.

    Someone like you survives and thrives on all the self-reliant things you do every day. Not everyone will be like that, especially those who are more dreamers than doers. Plenty of people want to run off to live a freer and less modern lifestyle, but very few are prepared for all that entails. It is a lifestyle, not just a pipe dream someone follows on a lark. You are more unique than you know, WildWoman.
    "A free citizenry should never abide a government that seeks control over it's people rather than service to them"

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