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Thread: trophy hunters

  1. #21
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I did have my first deer mounted and it's on the wall in my den. I didn't find nearly as difficult as most folks claim it to be. He was walking across an open field at the time.

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  2. #22
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    If you are dealing with a trophy hunter that is in quest of his quarry illigally I would place that in the arena of a meglamaniac, narcisistic, sociopath who feels the rules should not apply to him.
    Yeah, you nailed it right there IMO.
    The high-end trophy poachers seem to have a lot of money. Some years ago, people were arrested who organized and participated in illegal hunts via helicopter in Quebec. Game laws are fairly impossible to enforce in most regions of Canada.
    Actions speak louder than words

  3. #23
    Senior Member Winnie's Avatar
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    Don't have much to add to the thread, but welcome back!! It's great to see you.
    Recession; A period when you go without something your Grandparents never heard of.

  4. #24
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Howdy from Sarge!

    Quote Originally Posted by wildWoman View Post
    ...I make my living as a freelance writer.****
    Welcome to the forum...wait...you've been here before? Wild Woman who?

    Anyway, good luck with the book WW, my son just sold his 1st book "Smell of the dead," about Zombies on Mt. Everest. His goal is to become a full-time free-lance writer as well.
    SARGE
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  5. #25
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Thanks Winnie and Sarge! Like a bad penny, I keep turning up again now and then.
    Sarge, good for your son! The book market is pretty tough to crack, so way to go. If he wants to make more money writing, magazine articles and accompanying pictures are a good way to go. Photos usually have to be an average file size of 6MB for most magazines. Travel mags are a good place to sell outdoorsy topics, and he can sell the same article in Britain as in the States since the publishers buy (usually!) only the North American OR British rights.[/off topic]

    About trophies: so why do people take a trophy from a kill with them and mount it in their house? Is it sort of comparable to taking a picture and putting that on the wall, as a memory? Is there a feeling of victory over the animal?
    Actions speak louder than words

  6. #26
    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by wildWoman View Post
    Thanks Winnie and Sarge! Like a bad penny, I keep turning up again now and then.
    Sarge, good for your son! The book market is pretty tough to crack, so way to go. If he wants to make more money writing, magazine articles and accompanying pictures are a good way to go. Photos usually have to be an average file size of 6MB for most magazines. Travel mags are a good place to sell outdoorsy topics, and he can sell the same article in Britain as in the States since the publishers buy (usually!) only the North American OR British rights.
    He's already had a short story printed in an anthology (Grindhouse) that's being sold on Amazon as we speak, but he did it to get a story published with his by-line. He's made a lot of friends who are professional writers, and he's already been paid for a short-short "blog-story" for one of his friends. He's been given much professional advice, and I'm very proud of him of course!
    SARGE
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  7. #27
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildWoman View Post
    About trophies: so why do people take a trophy from a kill with them and mount it in their house? Is it sort of comparable to taking a picture and putting that on the wall, as a memory? Is there a feeling of victory over the animal?
    I honestly think it's more about trying to impress anyone who happens to lay eyes on their mounted kill. They don't give a flying flick about the animal itself, only the "specimen" and the message it conveys to others.
    One would have to be pretty demented to feel victory over a dumb animal...either that, or their IQ has to be lower than the animal's in order to think they "outsmarted it, what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.
    Note to all who tend to take a topic like this off rails: I'm only addressing the OP, nothing more. OK?

  8. #28
    Senior Member Old GI's Avatar
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    I used to hunt trophies quite often. Not much success; only got a few sport parachuting trophies and one for worst hole in a golf tournament. My Game Warden now tells me the other kinds of trophies from my misspent youth are definitely out of season ------- ouch, Honey, that hurts!!!!!!

    Oh you mean big furry trophies; nevermind.
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  9. #29
    One step at a time intothenew's Avatar
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    To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.

    To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.

    To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.

    It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both.
    "They call us civilized because we are easy to sneak up on."- Lone Waite

  10. #30
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothenew View Post
    To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.

    To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.

    To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.

    It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both.
    That may be true and as spiritual as the experience can be (I've watched many a National Geographics), it's not the type of "hunter" the op is talking about.

  11. #31
    One step at a time intothenew's Avatar
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    I took the OP as looking for insight into the trophy hunting mindset, legal or illegal, ethical or unethical, spiritual or demonic.
    "They call us civilized because we are easy to sneak up on."- Lone Waite

  12. #32
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.
    Note to all who tend to take a topic like this off rails: I'm only addressing the OP, nothing more. OK?
    Ms B that stuff is just what we use to get the sensory input at the "almost even" mark. It would take 30 power multiplied UV and IR vision, amplified hearing and some kind of device to increase olifactory senses, combined with heat seeking bullets to have an advantage. Plus they have the bugs and snakes on their side!
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  13. #33
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BENESSE View Post
    I honestly think it's more about trying to impress anyone who happens to lay eyes on their mounted kill. They don't give a flying flick about the animal itself, only the "specimen" and the message it conveys to others.
    One would have to be pretty demented to feel victory over a dumb animal...either that, or their IQ has to be lower than the animal's in order to think they "outsmarted it, what with all the firepower, scopes, night vision, hunting blinds, tree stands, scent eliminators and god knows what else.
    Well, that's the outside view of non-(trophy) hunters, but I need to get at it from the inside. As intothenew says, I'm trying to understand the mindset of trophy hunters without putting any value on it.

    So bragging rights, okay. And maybe the feeling that it was difficult and dangerous (in case of bears) to do, hence the need for all the equipment - and if was easy, no reason to brag about it.
    But I don't think trophy hunters don't care about the animal - I mean, obviously not in the way that they'd rather see it alive than on their wall, but they must be fascinated by something about it. And find it beautiful (who'd put something ugly up in their house). Maybe wanting to "own" it?

    @intothenew, how would a trophy be a shrine to the prowess of the animal? Just because of the memories attached to the hunt or do you feel something of the "essence" of the animal is still there, even though it's dead and stuffed?
    Actions speak louder than words

  14. #34
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    It's obvious that there are strong opinions expressed by those that don't hunt, and are responding from their heart......Although noble, not the mindset of any hunter, and certainly not an illegal trophy hunter.....So until you actually talk to an illegal trophy hunter.....have know a few in my day.....your are just left with opinions.....and only opinions.

    Said hunter (used loosely) was a braggart, PITA and general a$$ whole, the fact remains he still was held in high regard by many....wrong, I suppose.....but still a fact.

    So until you can get passed opinions and be a writer of facts, it will be fiction of personnel kind.

    Hang in there wildwomen, you may get there, but it will be hard, as most things of value are.
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  15. #35
    One step at a time intothenew's Avatar
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    I must give a loose ad lib from Winnie the Pooh.

    Pooh, when ask just what the best thing about honey is responded;

    "It's that moment when you know you've got it. It's just before your tongue touches the magic elixir."


    That statement, to me, has profound implications in this context. The trophy takes you back to that point, just when you knew you had it. The culmination of emotions, life vs death, weapon proficiency, the knowledge gain till then, the bushcraft and associated comforts and discomforts, all come together at that one point in time.
    "They call us civilized because we are easy to sneak up on."- Lone Waite

  16. #36
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Well said.........
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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  17. #37
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Goes back to that question "What were you thinking when you pulled the trigger?"

    During the current "Racoon War of 2012" I can attest that my thought is normally "Got you, you little SOB! Now I can go to bed."

    Wild woman, I would like to recommend a movie for you.

    The Ghost in the Darkness
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116409/

    These men are hunting dangerous game that is fighting back. The movie is filled with moral and psychological insight. It is a screenplay about a true story.

    In one scene a group of Masi warriors are preparing for the hunt by dancing and telling stories through song, as Michael Douglas puts it "to make each other brave". In those days a Masi was not a warrior and able to marry until he had killed a male lion. One had to take the trophy to be considered a man, it was a rite of passage.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  18. #38
    Senior Member Winter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intothenew View Post
    To call most, if not all, animals dumb is misinformed.

    To hunt a mature individual, for days/weeks/months/even years, is one of the most intimate and emotional things a person can do with their clothes on.

    To face a bruin with a stick and string, close enough to smell, and with confidence, is still an extremely tense circumstance.

    It falls on many deaf ears, but a shrine to both hunter and hunted can be a tribute to the prowess of both.

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    It's obvious that there are strong opinions expressed by those that don't hunt, and are responding from their heart......Although noble, not the mindset of any hunter, and certainly not an illegal trophy hunter.....So until you actually talk to an illegal trophy hunter.....have know a few in my day.....your are just left with opinions.....and only opinions.

    Said hunter (used loosely) was a braggart, PITA and general a$$ whole, the fact remains he still was held in high regard by many....wrong, I suppose.....but still a fact.

    So until you can get passed opinions and be a writer of facts, it will be fiction of personnel kind.

    Hang in there wildwomen, you may get there, but it will be hard, as most things of value are.

    These are 2 of the best posts I've seen on WSF.

    I don't see a huge difference between a BMW and a trophy. Anybody with a yacht or $600 handbag is displaying trophies.

    That would make the issue vanity.

    There's a local guy, Kurt Keulh (SIC?) Pronounced "cool" who has quite a few B&C longbow records. He's a schoolteacher in the winter and a smoke-jumper in the summer. He eats the meat, and does full skins with the bear. He calls himself a trophy hunter. He wants the biggest bear ever taken with a longbow.

    He's not some narcissistic nutjob.

    I know another guy, who will remain nameless. He is the best deer hunter around. Fills 6 tags a yr plus some. He poaches.

    He does not save the hide. He saves the meat.

    His opinion on deer hunting is; "I don't hunt, I'm at war with the deer."

    I've never in my life met a killer of animals that wasted the animals.
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  19. #39
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter
    I don't see a huge difference between a BMW and a trophy. Anybody with a yacht or $600 handbag is displaying trophies.


    I have to think on that. On one hand I understand completely where you are coming from and it's a good analogy. On the other, if you've done your homework and you think the best value for your money is a BMW or your lifestyle is such that the BMW is the Ford Taurus of your circle then it becomes a measure of perspective. If you have the money and like the open water then why not have a yacht?

    I suppose, too, that trophy hunting could be viewed as a measure of perspective as well. Except animals are a finite commodity and yachts aren't. When the buffalo are gone they are gone. And what if you are raised in that environment? I tend to think that attitude is taught or learned. Not something genetic. I don't personally know any trophy hunters either so this is just opinion on my part.

    Certainly agree with the two quotes you posted. Both were very good.

  20. #40
    walk lightly on the earth wildWoman's Avatar
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    Really good insights here!

    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    In one scene a group of Masi warriors are preparing for the hunt by dancing and telling stories through song, as Michael Douglas puts it "to make each other brave". In those days a Masi was not a warrior and able to marry until he had killed a male lion. One had to take the trophy to be considered a man, it was a rite of passage.
    So do you think that still carries over to today and applies in some form to Western trophy hunter - that having to prove yourself plays into it?
    But then why go for the largest bears, the moose with the biggest antlers?
    Thanks for the movie link!

    @ Winter - "I am at war with deer", that's interesting. I guess the same would apply to wolf hunters, not so sure about bear hunters ... there it seems to be more a mix of admiration and fear involved than hatred.
    BTW, legal trophy hunters up in my area in many cases do just come for the trophy and are not interested in the meat. I know somebody who used to do expediting for an outfitter. The guys in camp ate ground beef and pork sausages, with the odd top notch cut of game thrown in, and the majority of meat from their kills was shipped back to town where it was given away to friends of the outfitter and old people in town - since it would be a criminal offense to let it rot in the bush. In the old days they did just that.

    @ Hunter - To me, the difference between things you can buy (such as cars) and trophy animals is that the animal needs to be killed first to become a trophy. So a car, handbag, whatever doesn't get transformed into something else as a living creature does when it dies.
    I guess what both forms of trophies have in common is ownership - so the trophy hunter turns a free living animal into a dead thing that can be owned? Showing "I have the power to do this".
    Actions speak louder than words

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