Primitive camping trip

[JPGreco]

Rick, you are way wiser than I then. All I can figure is he wants to go play indians and doesn't know how to research properly.

[hunter63]

OK, I will ignore the "wet paint" sign on the door.....and add
http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/n....jsp?id=h-2126
Scrowl down to Native Americans

[shepherd]

Maybe if you just tell us what you are trying to do we could help. So far I have figured it out. I'm not sure anyone else has either.

There are lots of knowledgeable people on here, but the subjects discussed are many times really nebulous. I want to narrow the parameters in order to get a timeline fix on people living in the outdoors and understand the progression of amenities. Need one good benchmark and this will work.

[shepherd]

Yep, that is where I have lived for awhile. And yep, that is the history. I have read it all, but still do not know the answers to the simple questions put forth. I am curious, I would like to know and suspect there are people on this forum that know the answers. I have no intention to play Indian, I have done that plenty hunting rivers for several days at a time alone. It is a mental exercise for entertainment for all who care to participate. I suspect I am not alone in the difficulty of placing everyday advancements on a time line.

[Sourdough]

Nope, reinactment exercise.

Reinactment of what.......................??????

[shepherd]

Replay if you will of what a hunting trip of Indians in the Ga Piedmont would be like in 1600. For one thing there would be no guns. I have evidence these parties would have been up to 50 people, and that fire was used. Reinactment is probably the wrong word, but survival folks are accustomed to what it means. Only this time the reinactment is simply literary.

[JPGreco]

Reinactment of what.......................??????

Surviving!!!

[shepherd]

Not really surviving at all, more sustenance. This had to be a regular part of their lives with rules, traditions and tested methodology.

[Thaddius Bickerton]

Primitive is a somewhat vague term.

I can offer a few of my thoughts (when could I ever not bother to open up my mouth - keyboard- )

Each individual gets to define what is primitive for them.

For some it is not having running water and electricity.

for others not having flush toilets

For others not having toilet paper.

(Chose to use sanitation as an example.)

I consider primitive camping to begin at the point where I am not using typical camping tools.

For examples: When i use flint and steel instead of a match or bic lighter to start a fire I consider it using a primitive technique.

when I boil water from a stream after filtering it instead of using a pocket purifier I consider it primitive.

When I use something I made from found materials instead of bringing it with me I consider it primitive (i.e. A debris hut vs a nylon tent.

but for some it would be using nothing past a certain time period. For those who buckskin a lot, primitive might be going back to a stone age level of camping. (pre metal)

So the best I can tell you would be that instead of seeking a definition of primitive, why not look at what you would use and step back in time to using an earlier method, perhaps just a few at a time until you are comfortable with using nothing but a period of time correct collection of tools.

Sorry for no simple answer, but as I see it, learning stuff and then learning alternatives that are more simple and that you perhaps can make for yourself is a move towards knowing more so needing less.

Although I have heard that the more you know the less you have to carry, i prefer to say that the more you know the more options you have.

Thad.

[shepherd]

I carried this question to another forum using the parameters:

1600AD
Piedmont of Georgia
November
Hunting Party

and the info is interesting. The Spaniards had traversed this area and there was the possibility of limited iron tools, however there were no guns for the Indians. The hunting parties were of a substantial number, including all sexes and ages, some as large as 50 people. The same sites were used for years, and structures were redone yearly. The women did the work and the men hunted and fished. As it turned out it was like going to a seasonal job and most of the acoutrements from home were taken along. They gathered herbs, plants, fruits, nuts and items for medicine. They cured meat and transported these items to the main villages.

An interesting aside was that though Desoto carried large herds of hogs with him and gave stock to the Indians for breeding because they were so fond of them, I have found no evidence so far that Indians either raised or hunted hogs.

Bows, arrows, spears, blow guns, darts, snares, traps, stone age tools, bow drills, dogs only for packing or dragging gear and provisions, bark huts, cordage, blankets, clothing made from skins and plants, etc.

So far I have no reliable reports of exactly how they procured the large game, other than they flushed the game with circular fires. I am curious that having so many mouths to feed that they would hunt the game one animal at a time. They were very motivated to gather by any means a large amount of game. They could be gone for months at a time, returning home by February. These hunting trips were vital for their survival.

[Rick]

To what end does this endeavor mean to serve? Is it just an exercise in learning or is there a point to it?

[Sparky93]

This thread had me more confused than a cow on astro turf...

[shepherd]

It was and is an exercise to simply to enjoy learning about a specific activity placed in context with its environment from our past. It has been fun and enlightening to me, sorry if it wasted your time or was confusing. What would be even more enlightening would be how much different the result would be, were this exercise conducted in the year 1700.

[hunter63]

Yep, that is where I have lived for awhile. And yep, that is the history. I have read it all, but still do not know the answers to the simple questions put forth. I am curious, I would like to know and suspect there are people on this forum that know the answers. I have no intention to play Indian, I have done that plenty hunting rivers for several days at a time alone. It is a mental exercise for entertainment for all who care to participate. I suspect I am not alone in the difficulty of placing everyday advancements on a time line.

There ya have it........

[kyratshooter]

OK. We are ready for take off.

Native Americans did not by necessity hunt only the land around their village. So if a hunting party left a Piedmont Georgia Village, November 20th, 1650 AD, where would they go, how long would they stay, who would they take with them, how many would go, what would be the hierarchy of command and what tools, implements, provisions, etc. would they take with them?

Shepard, you are dealing with a highly specialized activity that not eveyone here understands or has done. Most here will not be able to discuss this throughtly because they can not grasp the need, of lack of the need to partake in such an exercise. Hunter understands and gryffyn due to their association with reenactors but we had to get past the time warp and seperation between modern primitive and historically primitive.

There is nothing wrong with that. I am not trying to put anyone down. I do not understand most of the computer talk they do here past point and click. We all have our specialties and this type camping/hiking is a world unto itself. The summer I spent on the Appilation Trail was spent using no technology or clothing not available in 1750. The only cheating I did was a Coleman Expidition stove due to the fact that my Moma didn't raise a complete fool.

I have a Masters Degree in Historic Reenactment and have done the time, place and culture you are speaking about. I have studied the material culture and anthropology of the area for several decades and would be happy to steer you to forums where this is the basic topic they discuss. Let me warn you that most of them are brutal in their demand for historic accuracy. This goes way past the myth of history and demands one know actual facts and sometimes research months to get the gear right for a single weekend trek.

I spent last weekend on one from Saturday morning till Sunday night. Nothing invented past 1780 was used.

The activity you speak of is called "Historical Treking".

http://www.coht.org/

There are a bunch of us out there.

PM me if you would like links to a couple of forums.

[gryffynklm]

Ok, now I have to find a cow, a field of astroturf and a video camera.

[kyratshooter]

Does the astroturf grow greener where the cow poops?

[gryffynklm]

Does the astroturf grow greener where the cow poops?

I'm not sure?? THere might be some grant money we could apply for.

I second Krats post at #35

Shepherd, You saw my rendezvous camp. That is easy liven and pseudo accurate because if you cant see what's in the tent the propane heater isn't there.

Beowulf65, haven't seen him about in some time but he offered a list of his trekking gear when I asked. He is quite knowledgeable in the history of trekking.
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...=10&do=discuss

From Beowulf65's Blog: what is historical trekking
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rical-Trekking
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rical-Trekking

Here is a Facebook page Beo set up for trekkers https://www.facebook.com/groups/250461282727/

[Rick]

I'm pretty certain it turns browner.

[Sparky93]

I'm pretty certain it turns browner.

ROFLMAO!!