Practical Accuracy

[Daniel Nighteyes]

In opposition to the "rifle is more accurate than I am" view, what about the times you have done your part and the shot goes wide? Way wide.

You analyze the situation and think through the shot and absolutely KNOW you should have hit the mark, and the gear let you down.

Been there, done that, got the ulcer to prove it (figuratively speaking of course). When such a thing happens, certain firearms notwithstanding, I generally look to ammunition issues first. Case in point: I have a great Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block in .45-70. I sighted it in carefully, made out a range card, the whole deal. Come the day of the Cowboy Long-Range match, all three of my warm-up/sighter shots were dead-center at 480 yards. Once I began shooting for the record, however, things went straight to H*LL in a handbasket. Needless to say, I didn't even place. Long story short, the ammo was the culprit.

I suddenly realized that I could shoot better than the gun I was holding. No matter what I did there was the distinct possibility that I could miss because of the gun/ammo combination.

And sometimes the rifle is the culprit. Consider, if you will, the Mini-14. The earliest versions (Series 180 and 181) were reasonably consistent, but nothing to write home about. The later the version, it seems, the worse the accuracy/consistency. The term "minute-of-barn-door accuracy" comes to mind...

-- Nighteyes

[hunter63]

Had one of the early ones 1976 model, shot good for the first 3 shots, then started walking off (0) high and to the right, did it every time...... but would hold about 1-1/2 @50yds.

One of the range rats say's,..... after watching it/me for a while....."Just sight it in when the barrel is warmed up"....That had to be one of the Dumbest statements I ever heard...still not sure to this day if he was serious or pulling my leg.....yeah like right, coyote hunting....hey coyote, you wanna hold still... till I fire about 3 "warm up shots?"

Got that rifle in a trade, ened up trading it back to the guy i had traded with for a SS .357 S&W 686 w/11' barrel and target sights...he was happy, and I was ecstatic......

[lucznik]

When you talk about such and such group at so and so meters, are you talking about in a vise with no wind, as in the ammount of play in the gun?

For me it's not a vise exactly, or even a Ransom-type rest, but it is a special, purpose made, padded rifle rest up front and another rest for the buttstock. These two tools allow me to really hold the gun rock solid. The goal is to eliminate as much of "me" from the equation as I can so that I can zero in on other variables to try to wring out the very best accuracy possible

[Phaedrus]

Somehow it has been accepted that we will always be able to chose which weapon we use for each task.

At this moment as I look around, my .22 that is presently in use as a "racoon safari rifle" is the closest firearm at my disposal. If I have to grab something in the next 15 seconds with which to defend myself that will be the tool.

I used to have a lot of guns. Now, as a full time student working full time to go get thru school, I only have a few. My most accurate weapon, the A-Bolt in .308, would never be used for defense except under really bizarre circumstances (since I live in the city). The two guns that are almost never more than 5 feet from me are my Kimber LME-II and my Browning Hi-Power. Both wear night sights and sit next to Sure Fire lights. As they're my only other guns, one of them would be pressed into service, at least until such time as I acquire a new E.B.R. or a new shottie.

[jake abraham]

most of my shots are under 75 yards

[Daniel Nighteyes]

For me it's not a vise exactly, or even a Ransom-type rest, but it is a special, purpose made, padded rifle rest up front and another rest for the buttstock. These two tools allow me to really hold the gun rock solid. The goal is to eliminate as much of "me" from the equation as I can so that I can zero in on other variables to try to wring out the very best accuracy possible

I use a Harris bipod and a rear bag for much the same reason. The bipod is obviously quite portable, and there are any number of reasonable substitutes for the rear bag.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

Somehow it has been accepted that we will always be able to chose which weapon we use for each task.

At this moment as I look around, my .22 that is presently in use as a "racoon safari rifle" is the closest firearm at my disposal. If I have to grab something in the next 15 seconds with which to defend myself that will be the tool.

Well-said. In many situations, the "best" firearm is the one you can reach. I'm currently sitting at the breakfast table. Were I to need a firearm in the next 15 seconds, 12 of them would be occupied by running (well, more like "Walter Brennaning" really fast) up the stairs to our second-floor bedroom, thinking all the way. 2 more would be consumed by grabbing either my S&W Model 19 or my 12ga. Savage riot gun from their resting places. The one I'd grab was what I was thinking about on the way...

[bucky]

The ideal situation for me is when I know that the weapon I'm shooting can do anything that I can resonably expect it to do; that is, the firearm will shoot better than I can hold it and deliver the proper amount of energy to the target.

[hunter63]

It is reasonable to assume that most firearms are built with some sort of quailty control.........Humans, not so much.

[Daniel Nighteyes]

It is reasonable to assume that most firearms are built with some sort of quailty control.........Humans, not so much.

We humans are definitely the weak link in the chain.

[glockcop]

Bolt guns for hunting = under 2" @ 100 yrds. Rem 700's and Ruger M77 will best this easily even with ammo they don't like.
lever guns for hunting = under 3" @ 100 yrds. Marlins regularly best this with ammo they like.
4" barrel semi auto pistol for S/D = about 2 3/4" or better @ 25 yrds. Sigs, Glock, HK best this with ammo they like.
4" barrel revolver for S/D = about 2 1/4" or better @ 25 yrds. S&W and Ruger best this with ammo they like.

If my guns won't meet these standards, they have to find a different address. Honestly, with today's close tolerance manufacturing, it would be hard to find new guns that would't meet my accuracy standard.

[hepit]

Hell, my little M4 is 3" at 100 yds, wth the iron sights, from the sandbagged bench, with a RRA drop in trigger job. With the scope and match ammo, it's always under 2" and sometimes right at 1.5", for 5 shots. 8" at 100 yds aint all that good pistol shooting, actually, much less with a rifle. Not from the bench, at least. Standing offhand, with a rifle and iron sights, it's just fair, not good. 4" at 100 yds is ok standing, with iron sights, assuming that the gun and ammo can deliver 2" or so, from the bench.

[Rick]

If I did 8" at 100 yards with a hand gun I'd think I died and went to Heaven. I'm sure glad you joined up to keep us straight on this stuff. We've been missing someone with some good information on firearms. Most of us just know what we read on the net.

[2dumb2kwit]

Hell, my little M4 is 3" at 100 yds, wth the iron sights, from the sandbagged bench, with a RRA drop in trigger job. With the scope and match ammo, it's always under 2" and sometimes right at 1.5", for 5 shots. 8" at 100 yds aint all that good pistol shooting, actually, much less with a rifle. Not from the bench, at least. Standing offhand, with a rifle and iron sights, it's just fair, not good. 4" at 100 yds is ok standing, with iron sights, assuming that the gun and ammo can deliver 2" or so, from the bench.

Wow! What I got from this post, is that you spent a fortune on an AR that shoots about as good as an out of the box 336 Marlin, or a mini-14......but that's OK, because YOU can out shoot at least 99% of the population, with it!

[Echo2]

In my AO...it's not really hunting....it's called waiting. I would wager that there are about 4 deer in the back yard right now....lingering among the apple trees...

The first 5 deer I ever dropped....were with a old Brit 303 Enfield mk4. It had a refurbished Simmons 3-9x32. Best group was about 2.5 @100....average was 3.5. It was perfectly adequate deer rifle.

Next was a Rem 700 270.....flat shooter....under 1 MOA was easy....started using shooting sticks.....began with the head shots.....once again a very adequate deer rifle.

Still have all the .308s....They can out shoot me....all are within 1 MOA....still taking head shots....will drop just about anything in the state of VA.

I hunt from a seat on the edge of the field/range....or off the deck.....I generally will use a rest of some form or fashion.

Average shot is within 100 yards.

I did not hunt last year....due to the fact that I zeroed in a few rifles for folks.....and got meat in exchange.

I do plan on going this year....want to see what this will do in the field....

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It will ride to my perch in a case on the back of the 4 wheeler.....damn thing weighs 13lbs....but from the bench did 3/4" @ 200...