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Thread: Herbicides and Pesticides

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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    Default Herbicides and Pesticides

    Lots of folks are getting plants in the ground, especially here in the south.

    I know there are some less lethal, more natural methods of removing weeds and pests, and I won't go into that here. What I would like to remind everyone is that honeybees like garden plants too. Especially cucurbit plants, like squash and watermelons. Please keep the bees in mind when you spray whatever you use.

    Bees will get out and forage (in my yard) from about 10 a.m. this time of year, until about 5 p.m. Spraying should be done after the bees have gone to sleep. Bees are social creatures, and communicate inside the hive, in the dark, through grooming, dances, vibrations, and pheromones. This will put a bee with herbicide or pesticide on it inside the hive, killing many of the others.

    Bees of all types, not just apis mellifera, are responsible for pollinating your plants and providing good yield from them. I witnessed a few german bees on some plants this week, covered from head to tail with a good dusting of pollen. Carpenter bees, while a nuisance, have longer mouth parts and are able to pollinate other plants that honeybees and german bees cannot get into with their short mouth parts.
    Observation is key to knowing the times and conditions when bees will be in your garden. Please spray your poisons after they have gone home for the night. They are very important to us all!

    One 40+ year beekeeper not far up the road from me has witnessed firsthand the destructive force of crop-dusters and pesticides being sprayed, and had a major die off of most of his bees in ALL his hives. There is a lot of talk about Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). In my opinion, and the opinion of a multitude of bk's I've talked with over the last year say CCD is a myth; hype; bogus b.s. Pesticides play a major part in unexplainable deaths of honeybee populations. Between the sprays, and natural diseases and pests that the bees deal with, many of the pests being carriers of diseases, we could presumambly eliminate this mysterious "CCD" and very scientifically discover the causes through expensive testing. Most beekeepers are not wealthy, and in hindsight, the bees are already dead and aren't coming back. The major thing I blame is PESTICIDES being sprayed IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, WHEN BEES ARE OUT FORAGING.
    We use less destructive remedies, like soapy water, pepper-spray, and simple weeding and companion planting.

    If you can't kill the bad bugs without killing the good ones...
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    Senior Member gryffynklm's Avatar
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    Good post!!! Thanks
    Karl

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    good post thanks for sharing

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    Good post YCC. Geneticlly engineered seed and more and stronger pesticides and herbicides seem to be the answer coming from the big agri companies today. ( Of coarse their big brother, the USDA does their talking for them) I always like to see the bees and ladybugs have a good year in my garden. When they do my garden seems to have a good year also. Hmmmm.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Thank, God, for genetically engineered seeds or we'd all be starving.

    YCC - Good post. There are many companion plants and flowers that help rid the garden of pests. But a garden with bugs and spiders is a sign of a healthy ecosystem. Be the Bee! Spare the flower!
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    Senior Member doug1980's Avatar
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    I had a customer the other day asking what these mounds in her lawn were. I told her they were ground bees nothing to worry about. She freaked and told me to spray them. I then explained to her that she wouldn't have her beautiful azaleas if I killed the bees. Needless to say I didn't spray them. I do apply horticultural oil on my customers shrubs four times a year but not during pollination.
    Alaska to Florida, for how long, who knows...

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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    A fellow at bee class last night said his watermelons last year would get about softball size and never turn pink inside, and never get any bigger. He is trying bees this year to try to get a better seed set. I don't know enough to say whether it will or wont help, but I can definately encourage him to try it and keep notes. Two hives won't make much difference on a 10 acre watermelon patch, but if he can learn to raise healthy bees this year AND methods for controlling pest insects without harming the bees, he can increase numbers in his apiary next year and might make a profit on melons next year.
    I know we had so many cucumbers last year that we got sick of cukes. Wound up giving away a large portion of them.
    Visited a blueberry farmer yesterday who was getting some small percentage of bees dying and out just in front of the hive. We could not find any noticable diseases in any of the brood combs. He uses natural methods to control bugs once the fruits are set but won't spray anything but water while they are in bloom. The simplest explanation was a neighbor probably sprayed their azaleas and the honeybees got a little contact with it. Through the process of elimination after examining the hives, that was our best s.w.a.g.

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    Semper Fidelis 0331exmc's Avatar
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    I agree that a healthy garden has a healthy supply of beneficial critter's. I use NO Herbicide or Pesticides on the garden that feeds me. Like YCC I too companion plant to attract "bad bug" assassin's. Hand weed and Hand picked execution's daily. Soapy spray when absolutely necessary. And I plant enough so the critters can make a livin too. I like to watch the bird's, bee's, and bug's do their thing.
    In the land of Wolves and Sheep, I'll be a Sheepdog. Protect your flock.

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    If you mulch your garden you won't have to worry about hand weeding. I have a bagger for my lawn mower and the grass goes into the garden. Spread it around and no weeds.
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    I do mulch some. I grow in raised bed's using the square foot method. Really only have to weed at the start, as things mature, most weeds simply get shaded out. I have found mulch help's some. The thing is every time my neighbor mows his weed infested patch of dirt and the wind blows my way, I get weeds after the next rain. Besides, I just plain enjoy workin my food plot's. Keep's me up on what's happening and the plants seem to respond to the attention.
    In the land of Wolves and Sheep, I'll be a Sheepdog. Protect your flock.

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    I've done square foot gardening in the past. It's a neat way to garden. You really have to think about the best place for your plants. It makes an interesting challenge.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

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    Semper Fidelis 0331exmc's Avatar
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    For sure. My garden start's with a fresh sheet of grid paper and the new seed catalog's.
    In the land of Wolves and Sheep, I'll be a Sheepdog. Protect your flock.

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    Seed catalogs. The right of spring passage. Oh, the countless hours the little boy in all of us have sat and circled those plants and seeds that would fill our 40 acre garden.
    "Hey, honey! Look at this. I think I'm going to try Rambutan this year."
    "Dear, it says it's for hardiness zone 28. We're in 6."
    Mumbles to self....."maybe next year."

    Those miracle magazines of miraculous munchies. While we pine away the hours until the snow finally melts into spring our grid paper looks like:

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    At harvest time our garden looks like:

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    Rambutan next year for sure.
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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    It's all part of the food chain. The aphids that feast on our garden plants produce "honeydew" and I'm sure you can guess by the name what it is for. Bees are attracted to the honeydew, as well as other bugs that are after the aphids, like ladybugs. Those draw in other bugs that eat those, and at some point it will look like all you have is bugs but really only a small percent of those bugs are harmful to your plants. There is a balance that can be achieved without human intervention of toxicity.

    I read only a few days ago about many of the Bayer chemicals and a trend in systemic toxicology, and even the simple old chemicals like carbaryl (sevin) being used to treat plants with unopened flowers. Upon blooming, trace amounts of the poisons are found in the pollen, which has never been in contact directly with the sevin. That tells me that if it is capable of being taken up in the plant, then it also is persistent in the soil, and certainly contaminates groundwater through runoff. It's not just the bees, but birds that eat poisoned bugs, fish in the lakes and streams, and almost certainly has some effect on humans that consume all of the above.

    With so many alternatives out there, why would we choose to poison the world? Soaps, pepper-sprays, companion plantings, and housings, all make tremendous differences without all the poison.
    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. Helen Keller

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    YCC, you know the answer to that as well as I do. Money, greed and more Money. Pesticides work faster. I didn't say better. Just faster and everything today is about immediate gratification.

    Also they have the American public so conditioned to having spotless produce that a spot on an apple is cause for a major coronary.

    I like nothing better than to go over to the sweet corn barrels where the people are standing shucking their corn and just grab any old dozen ears that suit me (that someone else hasn't already peeled back.) Sure I've gotten a worm or two in there. They don't eat much. Or in the grocery store people picking out green beans one at a time. I just turn a bag inside out, grab a huge handful from the back of the bin and pull them into the bag. Looks on faces are just priceless. Love it.

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    Semper Fidelis 0331exmc's Avatar
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    Too True, LowKey. You nailed it! Could not have said it any better.
    In the land of Wolves and Sheep, I'll be a Sheepdog. Protect your flock.

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    I've got to disagree with the "evils" of pesticides/herbacides. Applied properly they provide many, many benefits.

    They protect crops, increasing crop yield. In many cases they are the only means of controlling diseases, weeds or insect pests.
    They decrease the cost of food and increase the selections available.
    They protect structures from termites.
    They protect people from disease carrying insects.
    They protect people and food supplies from rodents.
    They protect waterways, roadways, railways and infrastructure from invasive vegetation.
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    Off Grid! Darkevs's Avatar
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    I have never and never will, used pesticides, herbicides etc. on my land.

    If your soil is 'healthy', and you encourage the natural bug/pest eaters to live near or in your garden.............you will have less problems from pests.

    Here is a good book for alternative pest deterrents..................... The Good Life in the 90's by Mary Moody ISBN#0 7318 0466 X

    I also mulch my garden heavily....it does wonders keeping the weeds down and keeping the soil moist. I rarely have to water my garden even in the hot weather of summer, which is great as I am off grid and to water I have to haul out about 400 feet of 3 inch firehose...start up the water pump and stand there and spray down the garden. And the mulch breaks down into humus that feeds the plants.

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