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Thread: If she would have had the basics!

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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Default If she would have had the basics!

    Another hiker that does not carry the basics, but at least she survived! She did have a poncho but from the sounds of it, that was about all she had! Of course, with a badly broken leg, it may have been inpossible for her to gather fire wood, or forage for food. But not leaving her route with somebody is one of the basic things a hiker needs to do! At least she had a ponco which saved her life!

    http://news.yahoo.com/hiker-survives...033514068.html


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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Four days without food? Amazing that she survived. Oh, wait. That's water. No mention of her extensive medical training splinting the broken leg. Proof once again that lucky trumps planning.

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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    I wonder if she had insulin (I think I spelled that right) with her, would 4 days without food or insulin (no mention of whether she had access to water) be pretty rough on a diabetic?
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Sounds like SAR did a bang up job finding her off trail in only 4 days. One day to not come home, one day for the alert to go out, one day to figure out where her car was and one day of search.

    Being prepared? How many days supplies is one supposed to carry for a 2 hour hike?

    Oh yes, I have seen the 2 page lists of some folks "EDC", but you and me both know they do not really carry all that crap every time they get out of the vehicle. Most do not even own it, they simply list it. Actually carrying that 50 pound load of "the basics" for that one mile run to see the waterfall,,,,Yea right!

    Is the altoids tin kit the answer? What could one possibly stuff into an altoids tin that would have helped in this instance, unless they have developed and Altoid tin sized granola bar.

    Although she did have a poncho. How many times has the poncho been included in our "most important three things" discussions.

    It did not say if she had a knife and a cookpot. If she had the poncho I'll bet she had at least a small knife.

    The presence of a water bottle is a given, and she crawled to a creek so she had at least two of the three essentials, shelter and water.

    Any healthy human should be good for a few days without food, as Rick pointed out. Most of us could use a good week long fast!

    And remember, this one was found alive, not dead in the woods! And what did she credit with saving her? The PONCHO.

    So, our basic advice has been correct all along.

    I still pick the knife as first essential, something to carry and heat water as the second and the poncho as number three.

    Just think about it though, if she had cut off her leg with a piece of chipped flint and crawled the two miles back to the trailhead carrying the bloddy stump she might have been chosen "sportsman of ther year". She simply did not do enough things wrong to qualify.
    A person often meets his destiny while walking the path he took to avoid it.

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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Sounds like SAR did a bang up job finding her off trail in only 4 days. One day to not come home, one day for the alert to go out, one day to figure out where her car was and one day of search.

    Being prepared? How many days supplies is one supposed to carry for a 2 hour hike?

    Oh yes, I have seen the 2 page lists of some folks "EDC", but you and me both know they do not really carry all that crap every time they get out of the vehicle. Most do not even own it, they simply list it. Actually carrying that 50 pound load of "the basics" for that one mile run to see the waterfall,,,,Yea right!

    Is the altoids tin kit the answer? What could one possibly stuff into an altoids tin that would have helped in this instance, unless they have developed and Altoid tin sized granola bar.

    Although she did have a poncho. How many times has the poncho been included in our "most important three things" discussions.

    It did not say if she had a knife and a cookpot. If she had the poncho I'll bet she had at least a small knife.

    The presence of a water bottle is a given, and she crawled to a creek so she had at least two of the three essentials, shelter and water.

    Any healthy human should be good for a few days without food, as Rick pointed out. Most of us could use a good week long fast!

    And remember, this one was found alive, not dead in the woods! And what did she credit with saving her? The PONCHO.

    So, our basic advice has been correct all along.

    I still pick the knife as first essential, something to carry and heat water as the second and the poncho as number three.

    Just think about it though, if she had cut off her leg with a piece of chipped flint and crawled the two miles back to the trailhead carrying the bloddy stump she might have been chosen "sportsman of ther year". She simply did not do enough things wrong to qualify.
    I would agree, nobody is going to carry 50 lbs worth of gear for a short day hike but a small 5 C's kit in a fanny pack would have done her a lot of good (which they also didn't list what she had, but she obviously didn't have fire) .

    Cutting tool
    Combustion device
    Container
    Cover (Check, she had a poncho)
    Cordage
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    I would be starting to gnaw on my boots after day one without food lol.... I eat a lot.... A LOT....
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    Minimalist Camping: Enjoy nature, don't be tortured by it. Take as little as you need to be safe and comfortable.

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    I do wish they had listed her gear.

    I am not familiar with that area, but I do know that many places in Utah there might not be anything to burn. We in the eastern U.S. take fire as a given due to there not being 1 square foot without some burnable material.

    As far as the other gear is concerned, I'll bet she had a drawstring in her jacket or laces on her boots. A knife is often not viewed as an essential to the day hiker. Several of the outdoor magazines and back packer journals consider a knife a danger and advise against carrying one! They generally list the flashlight as the one most essential device. (apparently most tree huggers are scared of the dark) She might have been following someone elses advice rather than ours, as foolish as that might seem.

    She did exactly what we would have advised in this situation. Even though injured, she went to water. She identified the poncho as necessary shelter. She stayed put and waited for help. She used her assets to the best of her abilities.

    She survived.
    A person often meets his destiny while walking the path he took to avoid it.

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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    I do wish they had listed her gear.

    I am not familiar with that area, but I do know that many places in Utah there might not be anything to burn. We in the eastern U.S. take fire as a given due to there not being 1 square foot without some burnable material.

    As far as the other gear is concerned, I'll bet she had a drawstring in her jacket or laces on her boots. A knife is often not viewed as an essential to the day hiker. Several of the outdoor magazines and back packer journals consider a knife a danger and advise against carrying one! They generally list the flashlight as the one most essential device. (apparently most tree huggers are scared of the dark) She might have been following someone elses advice rather than ours, as foolish as that might seem.

    She did exactly what we would have advised in this situation. Even though injured, she went to water. She identified the poncho as necessary shelter. She stayed put and waited for help. She used her assets to the best of her abilities.

    She survived.
    Redneck rule number 1: "Never be out of arms reach of a knife" lol. I'm not saying she did anything wrong, I'd say she did good with what she had. I didn't think of there being nothing to burn, like you said, round here firewood is everywhere... unless you get lost in a corn maze...
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    Minimalist Camping: Enjoy nature, don't be tortured by it. Take as little as you need to be safe and comfortable.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    She survived....That's bottom line.
    She used the most inportant piece of gear, her Mind!
    Good on her.

    You can make list, make plans, collect gear, but if you don't use you mind, doesn't matter, Dance with who ya brung.......Use what you got.
    Old Mountain man saying, The more ya know, the less ya have to carry.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    It takes no space at all to carry a whistle and an L.E.D. Light. Both of which might have helped her be found the first day. She could have had both on her key chain. It doesn't say whether she had a cell phone or not. Might not have been any coverage but a few small items can make a huge difference even on a "two hour hike".

    This is also a great example of why you might consider carrying something like Darvocet with you. That 4 days might have been a tad more comfortable if she had something to knock the edge off the pain and still let her function.

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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    One of those fanny packs with a water bottle holder and a nalgene bottle will hold plenty of small survival tools. If I was going to hike any trail that leads to the wilderness, I would at least have that. I have a belt that holds 2 water bottles, with a pouch that holds all of the essential tools and a little food and it weighs around 2 pounds. If a person cant carry that, they have no business hiking in the first place!

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    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Would have, should have, could have....

    All this might be so, but they are not going to close all the 2 mile loop trails down just because folks will not take our advice.

    This woman probably did better than I would have done with the same broken leg.
    A person often meets his destiny while walking the path he took to avoid it.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    That's also why SAR continues to train.

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    I have never had a problem finding fire wood out here. Lots of dried sagebrush. It is amazing she found water. There isn't much water, unless you are near a stream.
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by finallyME View Post
    I have never had a problem finding fire wood out here. Lots of dried sagebrush. It is amazing she found water. There isn't much water, unless you are near a stream.
    From the sound of it, she probably didn't have anything to light a fire with, unless she's good at hand drilling!

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I guess I really surprised that everyone take is gear dependent, should had a PSK, BOB what ever...fact is there are times that this isn't possible.
    Example, surviving a plane crash......and you aren't allowed to carry all the gear with you.

    I give her credit for making the best with what was available....and having a tough mental attitude, and making it.
    Old Mountain man saying, The more ya know, the less ya have to carry.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I'll give you the airplane scenario. But if you're going on a hike of any duration you should be taking some basic, basic stuff and taking some basic precautions like letting someone responsible know where you are going and when you expect to be back. That's controllable and that's what preparation and planning is all about. Managing what is controllable.

    I have to agree on the mental toughness, too. Some would have given up.

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    Super-duper Moderator Sarge47's Avatar
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    Cool Yeah but...

    ...watch what she takes the next time! Lots of clothes I'll bet! The article says that she was by a stream and she had extensive medical knowledge. So that was a plus.

    Being a Mormon odds are good that she's not a smoker so she may not have had any matches or a lighter with her. FinallyME, do the streams in Utah have trout? If so a small fishing kit might have helped in this situation.

    Man I'd love to hear the whole story!
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I guess I really surprised that everyone take is gear dependent, should had a PSK, BOB what ever...fact is there are times that this isn't possible.
    Example, surviving a plane crash......and you aren't allowed to carry all the gear with you.

    I give her credit for making the best with what was available....and having a tough mental attitude, and making it.
    Hunter she was obviously a savy lady, and her mental attitude pulled her through, but a knife, lighter and an emergency blanket weighs almost nothing, and would have made her a lot less vulnerable to the weather and survival in general.
    A small fanny pack kit shouldn't hurt a thing, and yes there are times when we just cant have any survival tools at all, but from the sounds of it, she could have easily had those few things with her.
    But you are absolutely right about the airlines, they have pretty much stripped us of having any of the essentials in our pockets during a flight! Of course hitting the ground from 30,000 feet pretty much ruins our chances of surviving in the first place. And if you did survive, the wreckage would provide a lot of the essentials I would think!

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildthang View Post
    Hunter she was obviously a savy lady, and her mental attitude pulled her through, but a knife, lighter and an emergency blanket weighs almost nothing, and would have made her a lot less vulnerable to the weather and survival in general.
    A small fanny pack kit shouldn't hurt a thing, and yes there are times when we just cant have any survival tools at all, but from the sounds of it, she could have easily had those few things with her.
    But you are absolutely right about the airlines, they have pretty much stripped us of having any of the essentials in our pockets during a flight! Of course hitting the ground from 30,000 feet pretty much ruins our chances of surviving in the first place. And if you did survive, the wreckage would provide a lot of the essentials I would think!
    Been said already, woulda, coulda, shoulda.....bad on her, dumases outta die......Using what she had, and making it...priceless.

    Read the story of Hugh Glass, some time....Mountain man left for dead, buddies didn't feel like waiting for him to die, so stole his gear, and left him..........

    Can't always say, "Hey time out, I did a stupid... and came out here for 10 min and the hill caved in....I need to go back and get my stuff".
    Last edited by hunter63; 05-02-2012 at 11:43 AM. Reason: splin'
    Old Mountain man saying, The more ya know, the less ya have to carry.

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