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Thread: Do you shop at military surplus stores?

  1. #1
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Default Do you shop at military surplus stores?

    If so, you could be tracked as a terrorist! The list shown on the link would probably descrbe 90% of the preppers in the world

    The FBI has begun a program to monitor people who shop at military surplus stores, calling them “terrorists”and trying to convince surplus store personnel to spy on their customers for the government.

    The brochure below “Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities Related to Military Surplus Stores” describes the program to the surplus store personnel.

    Store personnel are told that people who “demand identity privacy”or ‘”insist on paying with cash” are suspicious and may be terrorists. Personally, this motivates me even more to always pay with cash so that the government has more difficulty profiling me as a terrorist. This brochure seems to imply that buying survival gear with a credit card could result in a FBI raid on my home. If paying with cash can help prevent a FBI raid on my home, it seems like a good idea to me.

    According to the program brochure, purchases which could identify me as a terrorist include:

    Weatherproof ammunition or match containers
    Meals Ready to Eat
    Night Vision Devices; night flashlights; gas masks
    High capacity magazines
    Weatherproof ammunition containers, also known as “ammo cans” are used for long-term storage of all sorts of gear — including both ammunition and food. Meals Ready to Eat (MRE’s) are food packets which are designed for long term storage. Is the government really worried about people who are storing food? Or really, as that is now proven, why is the government worried about people storing food? Why would the government not want us to have food? I don’t mean to be paranoid, but that strikes me as very worrisome.

    Why does the government worry about “night flashlights”? What use is a flashlight during the day? What terrorist attacks have been made using flashlights? Does it really seem that the purpose of this program is to identify and track terrorists, as claimed? Doesn’t it seem that this program is more targeted towards survivalists — towards anyone who is actively working to make themselves less dependent upon the government?

    The government also uses this brochure to continue their mindless was against “high capacity magazines.” “Low capacity magazines” are useless for almost all purposes. Should we all replace the gas tanks in our cars with “low capacity gas tanks” to make the government feel better? Perhaps we should live in “low capacity houses” too? Why would the government be so afraid of efficiency?

    http://www.fortliberty.org/not-so-se...customers.html


  2. #2
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    at least the supreme court finally decided that a warrant was necessary for them to put a GPS device on your car.
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    at least the supreme court finally decided that a warrant was necessary for them to put a GPS device on your car.
    Yeah I'm wondering when the new bill will be passed that makes prepping against the law! I swear you cant even store food and ammo anymore without being thought of as a terrorist. If I was a terrorist, I would be stockpiling anything except fake ID's and passports!

  4. #4
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    some elements of prepping can be considered illigal. as an example, in the event of a state of emergency, hoarding can be illegal.
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    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    not to mention of course the ramifications or posession, or logistics of storage of some of the things many preppers collect, even in absence of in intent to further commit a crime with them.

    e.g. how much ammunition or propellant powder can you store in your residence? how must it be stored and labled?
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    some elements of prepping can be considered illigal. as an example, in the event of a state of emergency, hoarding can be illegal.
    But to truly define whording, you would think that they would have to give some parameters in which to gauge whording. Like: Suspected preppers can have no more than 6 months of food on hand in any given location. So I wonder how they would define whording?

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    We talked about this some time back. Take some time to read that brochure. It's really pretty mundane. "Significantly alters appearance from visit to visit. Missing fingers, chemical burns, strange odors. Makes racial threats and remarks." You'd raise an eyebrow if someone like that walked into your shop. Well, you would if they didn't get burned off in the explosion.

    "Hey, Hodgy. Your sister was in here yesterday. You know, it's kinda odd that both of you are missing three fingers on your left hand and your clothes are always smoking when you come in."
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  8. #8
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    they do. laws are required to define laws specifically and unambigiously (let's face it, they are known to fail in this department more than a little).

    the specifics of such laws vary, as do the jurisdictions in which they are imposed. here's a paper on the subject: http://luc.edu/law/activities/public...h_sharfman.pdf
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    It doesn't mention hording.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  10. #10
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    but Rick; those things alone do not evidence of wrong-doing make.

    in the case of yasir afifi, it was the fact that he was ethnically middle eastern and somebody had made a vague anonymous tip for unknown reasons.
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  11. #11
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    If someone walked into my military surplus store with missing finger, chemical burns, yappin' about Ali (Muhammad or otherwise), with burn holes in his clothes, and black powder burns on his face wanting to order 15 cell phones, 20 night vision goggles, 12 lbs of semtex, a case of detonators and a one way plane ticket to Pakistan I'm probably going to take notice.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

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    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    ok; how about another scenario. let's say the guy at the surplus store doesn't like you and fabricates or exaggerates this claim? from the perspective of law enforcement; the two scenarios are identical until and unless they discover that the latter is the case. are you comfortable with that proposition?
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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  13. #13
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    let's say it's even more innocent. let's say you've spilled oven cleaner on your clothing earlier that day, and this compounds his mistrust of your politics. does this justify the expansion of law enforcement's powers to gather protected information about you or proceed to investigate you as a criminal?
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Oh, heck yeah. Better we put to death one too many than miss one. Sister Mary Margaret never had any qualms about whackin' knuckles whether you were innocent or guilty. All you had to be was maybe guilt. If close enough is good enough for her it's good enough for me. Hang on, I gotta call the FBI. That guy is drivin' a foreign car.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  15. #15
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    haha. good stuff sir. you know; i really gotta limit my exposure to ShmooCon videos and EFF publications on the same day.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I not gonna worry about it too much.....Dec 21, 2012.....ya know......
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
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    Just be friendly when you go in and always pay in cash. Talk a little bit about fishing or camping and everyone will just think you are a typical American Outdoorsy guy.

    Think about it like camo. The objective isn't to not be seen, it's to appear that you belong.

    On another note, I have no idea why anyone would want to be a prepper. You don't need guns when you have cops, you don't need food or shelter when you have FEMA. No need to prepare. (jusin case the Gubmint it peekin')
    ”There's nothing glorious in dying. Anyone can do it.” ~Johnny Rotten

  18. #18
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    As long as all y'all keep buying more stuff than me....I figure I'm waaaay down the list of people to watch.......just wear your Ducks Unlimited hat/cap instead of your NRA hat.
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

  19. #19

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    just wear your Ducks Unlimited hat/cap instead of your NRA hat.
    Aren't they the same thing?

  20. #20
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LowKey View Post
    Aren't they the same thing?
    You tell me....are they?
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
    Evoking the 50 year old rule...
    First 50 years...worried about the small stuff...second 50 years....Not so much
    Member Wahoo Killer knives club....#27

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