From Idaho...

[wareagle69]

but you've already seen me i am exactley as i have described myself

[Rick]

Here you go, Sam. How to post pictures:

http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=1318

[Ridge Wolf]

You know...i cannot control how people respond to posts or threads around here...but if we would have "played along", maybe we would have understood exactly where this guy is coming from.
Get info...you know.
I'm always interested in people's motivations to do or write certain things...Saying "no" does not have to be the first thing out of our mouths...
Ah...forget about it.

I don't think he has closed the door yet... and he did invite us to contact him if we (or anybody) was interested.. So??? maybe you could PM him or somethin' and find out .. As for me, I have written him off. Hmm, that sounds like I am being sarcastic.. pessimistic.. naw.. just practical. My hair is too long for this anyway..

[trax]

That was not the point Ridge.
This is a forum...therefore a group.
What we do individually, like PMs and emails, has nothing to do with our responses as a group, our behavior as a group.

Some respond, some react.
I was thinking we could respond more than react...

No one else here needs to take responsibility for what I write or post. I'm not taking responsibility for anyone else. We're a group but we're not an ant colony.

[trax]

Was i talking about taking responsibility for what you write ?
No, of course.

And again with the ants ?
I thought we covered that last year...

I don't recall anything about the ants last year Remy, I may have missed it or simply forgotten . I just don't understand how to respond (or react) as a group to anyone who comes in, are we as a group becoming too cynical? If you agree with someone and I disagree with that person should we not each be able to express our own thoughts? I think people do, Spud for example had some supportive comments from some of our members, but chose to focus on the negative and sarcastic responses, apparently.

[spud]

Spud here...and smiling. Like I expected, words changed, words added, assunptions being made in so many remarks... We lost count on how many times some of you think you read what we posted and understood it, only to come back and post "gun ports" ???? Did we post that or is that another imagination of yours that went off into the ditch? If you wish to repsond to our free will offer, please try to refer to things we share accuately. You get some of these well meaning folks all worked up by using the wrong words. The word was "firing positions". Now that could be outside, inside, underground, above ground, on the ground or more? What "port"?

Next; Why did one of you say twenty couples? Did I miss lead you. Sorry. I meant to express twenty folks mainly comprised of couples. Married folks feel more comfortable around married folks. Not some cult secret there. There are some children in our mix as well.

Next; Why do we need them? Good question.... Answer, first they need us more than we need them. One single couple can not watch 24/7 for very long. Especially in all directions effectively. One out of the two goes down for any reason...the remaning one is now called...a victim. We have six or more man details assigned to various well layed out locations 24/7. Each shift is 4 hours max. After that a person begins to lose their awareness and edge. We have a garden detail, cleaning detial, cooking and food prep detail, a quick response team to plug any holes and more. Do you? Can you? If so how many folks do you have...or are you superman and jack of all trades?

Next; Trainable? Some of you really believe you know it all..... Please come and show me how to run this ranch with multiple wells, huge underground water storage and delivery, mutliple generators from 40KW and down, a very large tractor with tons of attachments, how to run our radio and hard wire communications, code words, weapons use and so much more.... On board we do have fully trained and current military weapons instructors, operations instructors, folks from law enforcement (we are a legal) operation here not some whack job. We gather those that can train us, as we don't know all that much. But one thing we do know alone or in small groups you have no chance. I noticed someone could not resist bringing up .50 caliber weapons. We have more than one... with a certified trainer/instructor on board. Of course they are all specially scoped out...even with PVS-14. Nothing like being on dark duty watch with top end vision and the ability to reach out and... well you get the point. We can and will train some to garden as not all have. Put up harvest veggies, fruit and meat, again not all have. I am being taught on a very regular basis... so much I never knew existed.

Next: We have already got our twenty folks, sorry to break the news to some of you that say we will never do much... and all within seven months. Please post here on just what you have gathered and over how long. I might learn something from you.. . The vast amount we have already known or are related in some way. We are however still looking for some more leadership/experienced and fully outfitted folks. Why, simple. It provides needed rest for the leadership people already on board and we then have good back up if one or more leaders went down...for any number of reasons. We also are developing fall back locations, routes and the means to do it. That is the very last option and we don't want to go there.

Next: Are we perfect or even close...hardly. Are we better equipped to adjust and improvise with more ready hands, I think...yes. Are we able to stand alone without leaving this location for over two full years...yes. Are you? Do we have wooden shacks??? Now that jab was pretty funny. What some people don't understand or are not able to fathom causes them to often revert back to school ground tactics of making fun of it to cover up for themselves. We understand, no harm...no foul....Even our gaurd dogs have a heated dog house with observation windows. Pretty cool uh? Very nice homes..two as a matter of fact. But you knew that if you read the original post, right.

Last: Please don't get offended at all this. We never meant this simple offer to drag out so many comments and opinions. All we asked for was if... there was anyone out there that was fully set up or close to it that honestly realized that if something bad did happen they could never hold their position very long. We are not anti government or anti authority. We as mentioned have both military, law enforcement folks and even one from the county prosecutors office on board. A real cool mix if I might say....
Now if you all have nothing better to do than spend countless hours posting, great. That tells me you have all arrived and don't need to upgrade, fix or prepare for anything. Congradulations on that. I wished I was there, but even with all the snow outside and cold temps I still go and work on various projects. That is why I can only visit here every couple days for a few minutes. If anyone ever manages to read our postings and is serious and fully prepared or darn clos and sees themselves working within a great group of folks to make it through someday...let me know. I do not interview on public sites. Take care...Rancher. Oh I know of Rawles and his set up, along with Todd his assistant. They don't live all that far away either.... We wish them only the very best and respect all their hard work. I am pretty sure they leave our humble group in the proverbial... dust, in comparison... Ireally think I have gone way past the need to or responsibility to explain about us. We will share no more about us. As a matter of fact we are almost ready to submerge and go under radar and out of site....In reading these posts here and there, few of you talk about all that you have done??? We posted please share about you, as we have about ourselves...Is that because of lack of subject material...I wonder. Take Care...spud

[spud]

Spud here...and smiling Like I expected, words changed, words added, assumptions being made in so many remarks... We lost count on how many times some of you think you read what we posted and understood it, only to come back and post "gun ports" ? Did we post that or is that another imagination of yours that went off into the ditch? If you wish to respond to our free will offer, please try to refer to things we share accuately. You get some of these well meaning folks all worked up by using the wrong words. The word was "firing positions". Now that could be outside, inside, underground, above ground, on the ground or more? What "port"?

Next; Why did one of you say twenty couples? Did I miss lead you. Sorry. I meant to express twenty folks mainly comprised of couples. Married folks feel more comfortable around married folks. Not some cult secret there. There are some children in our mix as well.

Next; Why do we need them? Good question.... Answer, first they need us more than we need them. One single couple can not watch 24/7 for very long. Especially in all directions effectively. One out of the two goes down for any reason...the remaning one is now called...a victim. We have six or more man details assigned to various well layed out locations 24/7. Each shift is 4 hours max. After that a person begins to lose their awareness and edge. We have a garden detail, cleaning detial, cooking and food prep detail, a quick response team to plug any holes and more. Do you? Can you? If so how many folks do you have...or are you superman and jack of all trades?

Next; Trainable? Some of you really believe you know it all..... Please come and show me how to run this ranch with multiple wells, huge underground water storage and delivery, mutliple generators from 40KW and down, a very large tractor with tons of attachments, how to run our radio and hard wire communications, code words, weapons use and so much more.... On board we do have fully trained and current military weapons instructors, operations instructors, folks from law enforcement (we are a legal) operation here not some whack job. We gather those that can train us, as we don't know all that much. But one thing we do know, alone or in small groups you have no chance. I noticed someone could not resist bringing up .50 caliber weapons. We have more than one... with a certified trainer/instructor on board. Of course they are all specially scoped out...even with PVS-14. Nothing like being on dark duty watch with top end vision and the ability to reach out and... well you get the point. We can and will train some to garden as not all have. Put up harvest veggies, fruit and meat, again not all have. I am being taught on a very regular basis... so much I never knew existed.

Next: We have already got our twenty folks, sorry to break the news to some of you that say we will never do much... and all within seven months. Please post here on just what you have gathered and over how long. I might learn something from you.. . The vast amount we have already known or are related in some way. We are however still looking for some more leadership/experienced and fully outfitted folks. Why, simple. It provides needed rest for the leadership people already on board and we then have good back up if one or more leaders went down...for any number of reasons. We also are developing fall back locations, routes and the means to do it. That is the very last option and we don't want to go there.

Next: Are we perfect or even close...hardly. Are we better equipped to adjust and improvise with more ready hands, I think...yes. Are we able to stand alone without leaving this location for over two full years...yes. Are you? Do we have wooden shacks? Now that jab was pretty funny. What some people don't understand or are not able to fathom causes them to often revert back to school ground tactics of making fun of it to cover up for themselves. We understand, no harm...no foul....Even our watch dogs have a heated dog house with observation windows. Pretty cool uh? Very nice homes..two as a matter of fact. But you knew that if you read the original post, right.

Last: Please don't get offended at all this. We never meant this simple offer to drag out so many comments and opinions. All we asked for was if... there was anyone out there that was fully set up or close to it that honestly realized that if something bad did happen they could never hold their position very long. We are not anti government or anti authority. We just believe that which is left will have their hands full. We as mentioned have both military, law enforcement folks and even one from the county prosecutors office on board. A real cool mix if I might say....
Now if you all have nothing better to do than spend countless hours posting, great. That tells me you have all arrived and don't need to upgrade, fix or prepare for anything. Congradulations on that. I wished I was there, but even with all the snow outside and cold temps I still go and work on various projects. That is why I can only visit here every couple days for a few minutes. If anyone ever manages to read our postings and is serious and fully prepared or darn close and sees themselves working within a great group of folks to make it through someday...let me know. I do not interview on public sites. Oh I know of Rawles and his set up, along with Todd his assistant. They don't live all that far away either.... We wish them only the very best and respect all their hard work. I am pretty sure they leave our humble group in the proverbial... dust, in comparison... I really think I have gone way past the need to or responsibility to explain about us. We will share no more about us. As a matter of fact we are almost ready to submerge and go under radar and out of site....In reading these posts here and there, few of you talk about all that you have done??? We posted please share about you, as we have about ourselves...Is that because of lack of subject material...I wonder. Take Care...spud

[trax]

Yeah, that's what I thought you meant, I just wanted to be clear.

[spud]

Please inform us all, on just who to call to get permission, if the shtf comes down.... 911 will not answer and the local or federal authorites if still alive, could care less about a loud noise .50 from way out in the country. Just who are you trying to impress? Para military? Say what. A group of families/friends coming together to do whatever, garden, shoot, sleep, keep watch, do chores, splitwood on private property does not make them para military? Even if you pretend it does in your own mind. Up here in Idaho there are guns everywhere, a fully automatic range not all that far away and a 300 yard range (legal) right on our spread. .50 cal. weapons are for sale in almost every gun store up here and they sell. It is only wise to plan for such a weapon to be in the hands of murderous roving gangs looking to kill and plunder others. We do not need permission to shoot any time out here, sorry it must be that way in the city/town you elected to live in. To bad. In Idaho for one to own muliple guns is way normal, not seen as "stockpliing". When does a collection become a stockpile? Another word added to us we did not use, notice that anyone? To see PU trucks with rifles in the back window in common place. I love it here. It is also one of the very largest places retired law enforcement officers come to, go figure that out? Training, everyone needs it in some area to some degree, even you wolfy, even me. If I turned you loose to run this ranch, you would fail. Simple as that. We screen all and 98 plus percent never get a second email other than maybe later someday. As said we are at our number count goal, but could handle just a couple more. We will probably go off the internet within a couple months. But all you posters will probably stay. We are not interest in the least if we are not for you or are for you. We only are interested in, if you are right for us? No one here seems to be in that position as of the current point in time. No one has to join and no one has to stay. Some of our group hsa had first hand experience in disasters world wide and within our nation. They have seen so much that the news did not cover and would have died in trying. Things get real ugly in a real short time, ever notice... well not if you watch the news you would not. I still wonder why 6-8 friends of yours would ever wish to do someone like us harm? You sure speak a mouthful of yourself and your friends of a feather. Not my type of loosers, who go around seeing if they can kill other people. We aren't leaving this site to go and kill, plunder and steal from others, but then it take all kinds, even you and your buddies, right? Group therapy, tell it to the marines/army. They are divided into groups and from I see do very well at it. Their group members are trained and qualified before being in the group. Gee now I wonder why? Thus some with vast current experience, are on board to learn from. Yes we are a group, thank you very much. Not an opened arms location ready and willing to accept anyone, anytime. We like it that way and when I say we I mean the tweny plus of us. Not you. Anyway it has been real eye opening to us to see where so many of you major in the minors. Off to work, see you in a few days or a week or so, spud

[Sam]

Real good post Remy.
My whole thing is that that is not for me, I could've just said that but the Trainable, thing got to me. Who is he or anyone else to come here and say I have to be trainable? You don't know my skill sets and how do you know your up to my standards? Although I do agree with Hopeak somewhat. More often than not those are far right wing groups, stock piling arms is good indicator as is firing positions, .50 cal weapons and the such. Has anyone ever heard of Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver? Lets not forget Waco Texas and that nut job. Just be careful.

Hey Beowulf, this is just a question. I don't mean to poke at you. If Spud had replaced the term trainable with interested in learning and sharing with like mind people, or something like that. Would it have set a different vibe?
I come from a background that is similar to you (Marines vs. Rangers) grew up farming and hunting and fishing to help feed the family. I some time find the way things are said make a big difference with me.
Again just trying to wrap my head around the folks I like to visit with.

[Beo]

Sam, yeah probably.

[trax]

I'm still not really clear on why Spud and the Tater Kings want more band members. Spud? If I missed it, fill me in here. Also, that bit about, not whether someone is interested in them, but more whether they're interested in the person (I'm paraphrasing, not quoting) doesn't really sound like it would attract anyone.

Personally, I've come to the conclusion that if the Spudniks want to withdraw totally from the rest of the world, or as totally as possible and live happily ever after in Spudzakistan, more power to them. They certainly seem like they have enough diverse expertise to accomplish that and they'll probably sleep okay tonight without getting my membership application, which is good because I don't want them missing me disturbing their slumbers. I'm such a small fry I wouldn't want anyone from the Potato Kingdom getting bags under their eyes

[trax]

Hope I didn't offend ya I really meant no harm I just rant sometimes.

You? Rant? Get outta here!

[trax]

Sometimes I feel the need to show my point of view, impose my will upon others, or go off on a rant, call it what you will but its fun

Why this is fascinating! And such a far cry from the image that I'd always maintained of you being a shy, withdrawn, stays quiet at the back of the group, wallflower kind of person. I never thought we would be able to get you to speak out about anything.

(this just may be the sarcasm that Remy and I were speaking of earlier, just may be)

[Rick]

I'm not sure who they are "preparing" against. It seems like a rampant bit of paranoia to me. But they are certainly more than welcome to do whatever they want and don't need my permission. I think there's a huge difference between preparing for some weather related catastrophe and hossin' .50 sniper rifles around. That's a little too "out there" for me.

[Beo]

Might be fun to blast some things with a .50 sniper rifle bout 2000 yards off or more.

[Beo]

I'm not sure who they are "preparing" against. It seems like a rampant bit of paranoia to me. But they are certainly more than welcome to do whatever they want and don't need my permission. I think there's a huge difference between preparing for some weather related catastrophe and hossin' .50 sniper rifles around. That's a little too "out there" for me.

I agree Rick.

[Rick]

Whether he said it or not, I like the gun port thingy. I'll go with that.

Hey Spud - I do appreciate your answers and I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your position. I do wish you the best. I'm not a big SHTF kind of guy and I sure don't think it's gonna end in fireworks but that's just my opinion. I respect anyone that stands up for their opinion and has the whoyas to do what they believe is right whether I agree with it or not.

I did read your posts. Every opinion is a learning opportunity and I try to accept it as that.

Did he mention forced labor?

[Beo]

But since I have said Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge several times I'm posting this so you know what I meant, this has nothing to do with Spud and his compound or ranch or whatever I want to be clear about that.
Ruby Ridge and the Randy Weaver case: What a mess the gooberment made and destroyed this man's and his families life. The Justice Report.
The 1992 confrontation between federal agents and the Randy Weaver family in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, has become one of the most controversial and widely discussed examples of the abuse of federal power. The Justice Department completed a 542-page investigation on the case last year but has not yet made the report public. However, the report was acquired by Legal Times newspaper, which this week placed the text on the Internet. The report reveals that federal officials may have acted worse than even some of their harshest critics imagined.
This case began after Randy Weaver was entrapped, as an Idaho jury concluded, by an undercover Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agent to sell him sawed-off shotguns.
While federal officials have claimed that the violent confrontation between the Weavers and the government began when the Weavers ambushed federal marshals, the report tells a very different story. A team of six U.S. marshals, split into two groups, trespassed onto Mr. Weaver's land on Aug. 21, 1992. One of the marshals threw rocks at the Weaver's cabin to see how much noise was required to agitate the Weaver's dogs. A few minutes later, Randy Weaver, Kevin Harris, and 13-year-old Sammy Weaver came out of the cabin and began following their dogs. Three U.S. marshals were soon tearing through the woods.
At one point, U.S. Marshal Larry Cooper "told the others that it was ['expletive deleted'] for them to continue running and that he did not want to 'run down the trail and get shot in the back.' He urged them to take up defensive positions. The others agreed.... William Degan ... took a position behind a stump...."
As Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris came upon the marshals, gunfire erupted. Sammy was shot in the back and killed while running away from the scene (probably by Marshal Cooper, according to the report), and Marshal Degan was killed by Mr. Harris. The jury concluded that Mr. Harris's action was legitimate self-defense; the Justice report concluded it was impossible to know who shot first.
Several places in the report deal with the possibility of a government coverup. After the firefight between the marshals and the Weavers and Mr. Harris, the surviving marshals were taken away to rest and recuperate. The report observed, "We question the wisdom of keeping the marshals together at the condominium for several hours, while awaiting interviews with the FBI. Isolating them in that manner created the appearance and generated allegations that they were fabricating stories and colluding to cover up the true circumstances of the shootings."
After the death of the U.S. marshal, the FBI was called in. A source of continuing fierce debate across America is: Did the FBI set out to apprehend and arrest Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris -- or simply to kill them? Unfortunately, the evidence from the Justice Department report is damning in the extreme on this count.
The report noted, "We have been told by observers on the scene that law enforcement personnel made statements that the matter would be handled quickly and that the situation would be 'taken down hard and fast.' " The FBI issued Rules of Engagement that declared that its snipers "can and should" use deadly force against armed males outside the cabin.
The report noted that a member of an FBI SWAT team from Denver "remembered the Rules of Engagement as 'if you see 'em, shoot 'em.' " The task force report noted, "since those Rules which contained 'should' remained in force at the crisis scene for days after the August 22 shooting, it is inconceivable to us that FBI Headquarters remained ignorant of the exact wording of the Rules of Engagement during that entire period."
The report concluded that the FBI Rules of Engagement at Ruby Ridge flagrantly violated the U.S. Constitution: "The Constitution allows no person to become 'fair game' for deadly force without law enforcement evaluating the threat that person poses, even when, as occurred here, the evaluation must be made in a split second." The report portrays the rules of engagement as practically a license to kill: "The Constitution places the decision on whether to use deadly force on the individual agent; the Rules attempted to usurp this responsibility."
FBI headquarters rejected an initial operation plan because there was no provision to even attempt to negotiate the surrender of the suspects. The plan was revised to include a negotiation provision -- but subsequent FBI action made that provision a nullity. FBI snipers took their positions around the Weaver cabin a few minutes after 5 p.m. on Aug. 22. Within an hour, every adult in the cabin was either dead or severely wounded -- even though they had not fired a shot at any FBI agent.
Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and 16-year-old Sara Weaver stepped out of the cabin a few minutes before 6 p.m. to go to the shed where Sammy's body lay. FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shot Randy Weaver in the back. As Randy Weaver, Mr. Harris, and Sara Weaver struggled to get back into the cabin, Vicki Weaver stood in the cabin doorway holding a baby. Agent Horiuchi fired again; his bullet passed through a window in the door, hit Vicki Weaver in the head, killing her instantly, and then hit Mr. Harris in the chest.
At the subsequent trial, the government claimed that Messrs. Weaver and Harris were shot because they had threatened to shoot at a helicopter containing FBI officials. Because of insufficient evidence, the federal judge threw out the charge that Messrs. Weaver and Harris threatened the helicopter. The Justice report noted, "The SIOC [Strategic Information and Operations Center at FBI headquarters] Log indicates that shots were fired during the events of August 22.... We have found no evidence during this inquiry that shots fired at any helicopter during the Ruby Ridge crisis. The erroneous entry was never corrected." (The Idaho jury found Messrs. Weaver and Harris innocent on almost all charges.)
The Justice Department task force expressed grave doubts about the wisdom of the FBI strategy: "From information received at the Marshals Service, FBI management had reason to believe that the Weaver/Harris group would respond to a helicopter in the vicinity of the cabin by coming outside with firearms. Notwithstanding this knowledge, they placed sniper/observers on the adjacent mountainside with instructions that they could and should shoot armed members of the group, if they came out of the cabin. Their use of the helicopter near the cabin invited an accusation that the helicopter was intentionally used to draw the Weaver group out of the cabin."
The task force was extremely critical of Agent Horiuchi's second shot: "Since the exchange of gunfire [the previous day], no one at the cabin had fired a shot. Indeed, they had not even returned fire in response to Horiuchi's first shot. Furthermore, at the time of the second shot, Harris and others outside the cabin were retreating, not attacking. They were not retreating to an area where they would present a danger to the public at large...."
Regarding Agent Horiuchi's killing of Vicki Weaver, the task force concluded, "[B]y fixing his cross hairs on the door when he believed someone was behind it, he placed the children and Vicki Weaver at risk, in violation of even the special Rules of Engagement.... In our opinion he needlessly and unjustifiably endangered the persons whom he thought might be behind the door." The Justice Department task force was especially appalled that the adults were gunned down before receiving any warning or demand to surrender: "While the operational plan included a provision for a surrender demand, that demand was not made until after the shootings.... The lack of a planned 'call out' as the sniper/observers deployed is significant because the Weavers were known to leave the cabin armed when vehicles or airplanes approached. The absence of such a plan subjected the Government to charges that it was setting Weaver up for attack."

[trax]

I don't see gangbangers driving 400 miles outta their way to reaid the spud ranch.

Ho yeah? Wal, lemme tell you esay, you start jonezin' for dem french fries you just gotta roll on Idaho, you know what I'm sayin'? You feel me homes? Ain no potatoes like dem Idahos, dey my ho's esay.