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Thread: Making the Journey

  1. #1

    Default Making the Journey

    Today's safety net is one some of us didn't have "way back in the last century." Our daddies, grandpappies, great, great uncles and further ancestors didn't have it either.

    Sattelite phones with GPS and solar charger. Get your butt in a jamb, all you have to do is call who you need to call and the feds will be flying over with infra-red looking to extract you. Foreign soil? Call the American Embassy, the Marines are on their way. They love playing with their new gadgets and gizmos and playing the hero.

    I bet it even has games on it but I wouldn't know.

    I first learned about this handy device 20 years ago when I received a call in the middle of the day:

    Hello. I didn't think I would like carrying a phone, now I like it.

    Me: Where are you?

    I'm still in Idaho, but I'm 5 miles from my pick-up, sitting in a rotted snag kicking grizzly cubs down. (thump, BAWL) Momma Bear hasn't seen me yet. Write these coordinates down, my location, my trucks location. I will beeline back to the truck if and when it's safe. If you don't hear from me by 4:30, call Dave at xxx-xxxx. He will be out of the canyon and they can come pick up my pieces.

    Me: You're armed right?

    Of course. I don't want to kill them and it's still gonna hurt. Momma or these cubs can easily shove this snag over. Bye, gotta go. (grumble, thump, BAWL)
    ********************
    He called me back at 4 from his truck to let me know Momma Bear got tired of the bawling, slapped the crap out of her kids and took them over the hill. If our kids ever give us grandkids, he has wonderful stories to share while taking them fishing.


    Reading the fine print (finally) I see this forum is about ACCIDENTALLY being in the wilderness, not going on purpose. Uhmmmm......some of us go there on purpose. We call it going home. Yeah, Mother Nature only has to win once, but the red light only has to win once, the JBT only has to win once, the suburban thug, Mall Ninja, Woman Driver, trucks on the viaduct, the Shrew Crew........

    At some point a boy must become a man. I know of no better way than for him to face himself, learn his strengths, weaknesses, conquer his fears, test his endurance, than by going off into the wilderness by himself for a period of time. He may want to go for a year but he is free to come back at any time. It doesn't matter. What matters is he goes. He will lose the boy and come back a man. It's a tradition in my family, I see the difference in the males who go and those who don't. In becoming a man, I feel this is far safer than joining the military.

    I have daughters, 2 of them are adults, 1 teen. There are very few males who qualify as mates, they do not display characteristics of men as we are used to in our family. Those who are qualified are not from contemporary white culture. They are of old traditions, and have made the journey.

    I still don't understand why the extreme discouragement to the young men who come here seeking to make the journey. Perhaps some of you have never fully embraced the experience and overcome the fear? I dunno.

    Being alone in the wilderness never scared me, it's comforting with all it's noises. Being lost in East L.A. was unsettling. The thought of living in a city or large town is terrifying.


  2. #2
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    If you are there on purpose you are not surviving, you are camping.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  3. #3

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    Camping is when you take a bunch of crap you don't need.

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post
    Camping is when you take a bunch of crap you don't need.
    As the saying goes around here...it's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. With with practice one builds experience and ultimately intimate knowledge about what matters to you. Beyond the basics, everyone is different--what's right for me may not be right for you.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    There are a lot of us that made the journey, in small steps, in a orderly fashion, with trial and error, but with a reasonable chance of doing it successfully.......meaning proving them selves and not dieing.

    So the wilderness can become a place of recreation, and comfort....or deadly as any other place.....difference being your knowledge and skill....same as the streets of LA.

    Would I head out to live in either place with out knowledge and skill...no....not unless I have to.....Would I suggest the journey to anyone else, yes but with thought of what I/ you are doing.

    Tough to make a call for someone else that come on like an idiot....so I remain on the side of caution.....That's just me.
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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post
    I still don't understand why the extreme discouragement to the young men who come here seeking to make the journey. Perhaps some of you have never fully embraced the experience and overcome the fear? I dunno.
    Most of those who get discoraged are ill prepared, naive about the basics and unwilling to take advice they are supposedly looking for. We don't know anything about them other than what they say and even that becomes suspect once you start reading between the lines. Our role is not that of a parent but a (anonimous) teacher at best. There is a difference.

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Another thing:
    What if their parents are against their harebrained idea of running off into the wilderness (they know their child better than we do!) and we end up encouraging them, saying, yeah, never mind school, never mind college, go become a man and here's the right knife, btw?

  8. #8
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    What journey?

    The journey to intentional death?

    Self defeating personality disorder is well known and widespread. It qualifies one for committment to protect one from harm to self or others!

    As far as discouragement of the young that stumble in here, If we were their parents and we were forcing them to do what they are sugggesting we would be jailed for abuse.

    My Side Of The Mountain was fiction.

    If you want to kick around grizzly cubs and brag about it do so elsewhere. Perhaps in one of the forums where they would believe you. One of these kids you are refering too might read your post and think they could get away with it and become a fatality. I doubt that your irresponsibility would cause you any lost sleep but a more mature person would have trouble with such behavior.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  9. #9

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    I didn't kick grizzly cubs. The daddy to my older children did. He was 52 years old at the time. Now I don't know what YOU would do (besides not go into the wilderness because it's too scarey and dangerous) if a couple of grizz babies decided YOU were the new cool play toy besides go up the nearest tree. (which happened to be a rotted snag)

    He was one of those "children" who graduated high school back east and didn't stick around for his graduation party. He got on his motorcycle and headed to Montana wilderness for the summer. He cowboyed through U of M for a degree in wildlife biology then never used it as a helicopter logger. Camping is a way of life and we camped all over the world, we also got dropped off in the wilderness just because we like it, with kids. He went logging in Alaska, bought an island, retired and rarely comes back.

    I don't consider 18 year olds children. They are old enough to vote and go to war. They are old enough to wander off into the wilderness, turn around and wander back to civilization. Not everybody is a dumbass. Even I survived East L.A. Tiajuana and Chicago. Central America isn't scarey, the barrios or the jungles, ask my daughter, she went when she was 19.

    Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?

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    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post
    Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?
    Obviously you haven't spent the time reading through some of the "discouriging" advice to understand what was said and why.
    We're not debating the relative maturity of 18 yr olds ANYwhere...just some who came here clueless (not bad in itself) and arrogant.

    Do you not feel any responsibility about what you say to someone you don't know that could potentially put them in jeopardy?!

  11. #11
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post
    Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?
    So let's look at a few of the recent young men that wanted to go off in the wilderness and came here asking for advice.....

    -- a young man (18) with an "abundant knowledge of survival skills" thinks heading off to Siberia for a year so that he won't run into people is a sound plan. Few encouraged that behavior.

    -- another young man (25) seeks to hike the entire AT. He received sound advice and encouragement.

    -- another young man (16) wants to buy land in Maine and live in a log cabin. He says his parents are onboard. He has received the encouragement that a minor should receive.

    some others

    -- an 18 year old fed up with society wants to know how to squat on land and harvest game. That is not the sort of behavior that I (or many others) will encourage. You are certainly free to do so.

    Time after time we get posts similar to the one I just listed. While you may not seem to believe it, people that come here with something that resembles a plan and a willingness to put in the time and effort to learn - DO receive encouragement.
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  12. #12

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    Yes, I've read through the abundant posts. Yes, I've seen the holes in their plans, Yes, I've seen arrogance and that arrogance is exactly WHY they need to confront themselves. I've met many of these young people in person. They have an entire different attitude in the morning, even when it was only the Maniacal Chucklebird they heard in the dark and not the big kitty cat. Waking up with giant banana slugs stuck to their faces brings a similar attitude adjustment. I work HARD not to belittle, bust balls or laugh at young men during their transformation.

    The best advice to give anyone is to have a back up plan. It's what I ask everyone who tells me of their new, wild to me, adventure. It's what I asked my middle-aged cousin when she told me she was driving across the country to live with her internet boyfriend named Bunny she hadn't met in person. It worked for her, she's deleriously happy.

    Do I feel any responsibility for the wellbeing of anyone asking for wilderness adventure advice? No more so than if they asked for directions to the nearest burger joint. I've ALWAYS lived on the edge of wilderness, I'm used to foreigners with crappy guidebooks asking me for directions and advice. I give it to them without making judgements on their personhood.

    I assume people have the brains God gave a piss ant to turn around and back out of a situation that's too intense for them. Considering the millions of people who enter the wilderness every year and the tiny few who die, the wilderness is much safer than your cities. More people die in the National Parks than in the wilderness areas.

  13. #13
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post

    Again, I'm trying to understand why a place called wilderness survival tells young men, "Don't go into the wild, it's too scarey and dangerous for ignorant fools like YOU." Are you a bunch of people who had traumatic near death experiences out camping?
    The wilderness survival stuff is just that , staying alive.......Why would anyone encourage behavior that will end in a avoidable bad situation?

    I do understand the "what doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger", and the self test, that every young man kinda is looking for....but still will not advise self destructive or illegal activities.

    Real life doesn't have a "Replay Button".

    I agree to disagree with you and your opinion.
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    I have to side with "Crabapple Plum" on this. I think most of the young "Wahooo's" that come here are just yanking the forum members chain. This Forum at this time has a true identity problem, it does not know what it wants to be.

    To me the sad thing is all of the real outdoors men who have left this forum (Kevin, Dogman, Alaskan Survivalist & many others) in my opinion because so many here are "Talk" and not "boots in the field".

    Do you'all realize how rare it is that someone posts about current real field experiences. This forum an incentious feedback loop. I love this forum, and many of the members are like family to me, But we need to encourage the spirit of young people, nor crush their dreams. It is not my job to be their mommy, It is my job to say go for it, but be careful. Out of the hundreds and hundreds of young people who have come here, I doubt that (2) Two have ever ventured off asphalt. As I say I think most are just looking for some survival gimmick like cooking an egg in a paper bag, so as to get face with their friends.

  15. #15

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    Egg in a paper bag, huh? I've never heard of that. I can usually wrangle a challenge of egg on a stick.

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    Senior Member el-amigo's Avatar
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    If I understand well you're speaking about two different things.

    1. Survival, when you face with the unexpected and have to stay alive with your equipment and knowledge. This situation is seriously life threatening.
    2. Camping, when you want to go out and do something in the "wilderness".

    The forum gives good advices and theoretical knowledge to face with the unexpected, but everyone should practice it on his/her own.
    At the other hand, you can use this knowledge during your camping. This is my personal opinion.

    Sorry if I misunderstood the whole thread and write idiot things.
    Everybody has a different way to view the world...

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crabapple Plum View Post
    Egg in a paper bag, huh? I've never heard of that. I can usually wrangle a challenge of egg on a stick.
    They this:
    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...g-How-To-Video
    Geezer Squad....Charter Member #1
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    Senior Member jfeatherjohn's Avatar
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    Wow! I was out in the woods, alone, many times when I was a youngin, and I completely missed the controversy, or that was what made me a "man".
    I have also enjoyed cruising around pulling my travel trailer, alone. Rite of passage?
    I am completely confused...not unusual...but troubling.
    KF7ZJR I always carry a pocket knife, just in Case.

  19. #19

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    It's not like we're picking these young men up from their doorsteps and drop them in the middle of Bob Marshall with a can of sardines when the grizzlies are waking up. Or in the middle of Siberia in October with a dried squid. The young man who wishes to go to Siberia still need to get a passport and visa, arrange his own transportation and negotiate with the locals when he gets there. Those tasks contain more learning experiences than he would get his first year of college and a heck of lot more than what he will learn living in his mother's basement.

    I've lived along the jump-off points and wilderness trailheads for 40 years and met hundreds of these young men. Their idealism, enthusiasm , naivity and ignorance is astounding as they head out to "live off the land for a year." Guess what? They don't die. They grow up and see the error of their ways real fast. They don't go far off the beaten path if at all. They don't know what true wilderness is. When they get cold, wet and hungry, they are less than half a day's walk from pavement and they're looking to get out! A lot of them are ready to go home within 3 days - 1 week. But by golly, they had their wilderness adventure, they learned something and they grew up! They honed their survival instinct! Some keep at it, keep learning and become skilled professional adventurers.

    The wilderness can kill you! Mother Nature is Deadly! She is also a nurturer and a teacher and a divine practitioner of the healing arts. Let her be your master instead of trying to master her.

  20. #20
    One step at a time intothenew's Avatar
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    Take a deeeeeep breath;


    This is a kinder, gentler forum than when I showed up a few months ago. Rather than direct attacks, there is the inside joke of “GLWT”. A slight improvement, but an improvement non the less. I state that with two exceptions, two people that is. I too, have been guilty of dog piling. I am consciously trying to temper that. But, as has been stated, we each have and should have an opinion. “That's freedom for ya ain't it?” ( I loosely quote Thad. Where's he by the way? He has been a kind and level headed voice.)

    I can argue this subject from either side, I have two explicit examples:

    One; Payne

    He took off via his bug out thumb, and made waters edge sometime last week I think. He's living his dream, and I stress the word living, at least as far as last week.

    Two; Peter

    Where the heck is Peter? I worry about that one.

    One has made it, at least part way, the other we just don't know. I struggle with taking a stand on either side of this argument. The nice thing is, I don't have to. We are not here to be mommies, and we are not here to give ill advice. We are here to give and take good advice.

    Where is here? Here is the place where we do those things we do alone, together. Here is the digital medium for us to discuss, bond, share, and want. Here is the place for us to be teacher, student, or both.

    I cannot say that I have been more discouraged in quite some time, as when I found out that the “boots in the field” contest was dropped. I had a nominee in mind, one that had not received the award, and if memory serves me right had not ever been nominated. I did research the previous BITF threads. I've even read every sticky, but one. I haven't been able to make it through the gutter thread, I get lost in thoughts and fears. I will finish reading it, but I digress.

    I can say that same discouragement was felt with the homework threads. They are dangerous as posted, not necessarily from what was in them but from what was left out.

    I have also been back into history enough to know that this place has been likened to a “Mature Church”. That fits, that simple description fits very well.

    I see it as the two ends of the bell curve are being trimmed. Those wanting more, more adept, sharper in skills, and more active are moving on. Those that are naive, immature, slow, and/or just plan lazy are moving on too. One side of the curve I could possibly ignore, the other I cannot.

    So what does all of that jabber have to do with “a young man's right of passage”? I need to change a noun first to “he/she”.

    He/She is looking for an education when they walk through that digital door. He/She is looking for A PLACE TO DO THE THINGS WE DO ALONE, TOGETHER. That holds true for teacher and student, young and old, sourdough or tenderfoot.

    How might we accomplish that? I think the BITF concept should be reinstated, with a caveat. I think something along the lines of the homework thread should be instituted with it. Show your stuff, teacher and student, young and old, sourdough or tenderfoot.

    Both ends of the bell curve will gain from it, as well as those in the middle.
    "They call us civilized because we are easy to sneak up on."- Lone Waite

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