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  1. #21
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Coming along:

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    I have been having a far easier time cutting out the slots for the blade and tang on such mountings since I have access to a milling machine. I can do cleanly in 3 min. what has previously taken me over an hour with a carving knife and chisle, and has not always ended up looking pretty. lazy to the rescue.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".


  2. #22
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    I finished the blade on the first one today. I suppose I still have a bit of polishing to do, but If I'm going to keep it I might just as well call it done. I will probably still be taking some 1500 grit to the finish (i've set it on a couple rough surfaces over the last two days) and apply a final coat.

    [edit: woops! forgot to include the image:]

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    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  3. #23
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    I've also started today on my first swords; two wakizashi. I expect them to take quite a long time as I intend them to reflect the very best of my ability so far. I will need a much better heat treatment system by then. They should forge out to around 17" and 23" nagasa. I have cut them out and done the preliminary profiling from the 1/4" 5160, and will try to forge them nearly to finish and file from there, spreading them to increase the width without lengthening more than necessary. With the arrangement I plan to use, starting with the spine, then proceeding to the edge this should leave me with the desired curvature and avoid blade warping. Being monosteel, the heat treatment will not impart any appreciable curvature itself.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  4. #24
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Looking forward to seeing it.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Is that the same blade that slipped in the vise, you probably know this, but if you bump up the RPM and take really shallow passes you should get a really nice finish with the ball nose cutter. Also you might try losing the vise and toe clamping the blade to the table, just place some thin bass squares between the blade and the toe clamps so they don't mar up the blade.
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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  6. #26
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    I was afraid to clamp it down because of the thinness and bevel of the blade section (which i'd be further weakening while cutting) but of course it didn't occur to me to shim it first. That would have done the trick.

    If i try to machine a hi in again, I have a couple of ideas. Firstly, i'll definitely do it while the spine is still straight, so that it curves proportionally and remains parallel. Secondly, I think the tool for the job might be a gear cutter. they're available in a variety of forms and I believe the effect would look very clean.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  7. #27
    Devout Neophyte Bush Monkey's Avatar
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    Very nice work.

  8. #28
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    The first wakizashi is well on it's way to becoming a sword:

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    I really need to get that anvil situation straightened out if i'm going to be forging anything this large much closer to finish. Once I've got the bevels worked down a bit further, and the sori adjusted to were I want it I'll work something out to normalize such a long blade. Then it's down to filing and grinding, though I have been doing a bit of grinding as I work on the forging just for cheating's sake
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  9. #29
    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    I was afraid to clamp it down because of the thinness and bevel of the blade section (which i'd be further weakening while cutting) but of course it didn't occur to me to shim it first. That would have done the trick.

    If i try to machine a hi in again, I have a couple of ideas. Firstly, i'll definitely do it while the spine is still straight, so that it curves proportionally and remains parallel. Secondly, I think the tool for the job might be a gear cutter. they're available in a variety of forms and I believe the effect would look very clean.
    Are you referring to a broach, like you would use to cut internal gears or key ways? Or a horizontal mill? I could see how the horizontal mill could work good, but you lost me if you are talking about using a broach....
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
    Thomas Paine

    Minimalist Camping: Enjoy nature, don't be tortured by it. Take as little as you need to be safe and comfortable.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Also I believe I read somewhere the Japanese sword smiths would put clay on the edge so when the tempered the blade the edge would be remain hard and the spine would be softer. Are you familiar with this, it has been a while since I read it... or maybe I saw it on the history channel sword special...
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
    Thomas Paine

    Minimalist Camping: Enjoy nature, don't be tortured by it. Take as little as you need to be safe and comfortable.

  11. #31
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Yes, I've been studying nihonto heat treatment for quite a while. I'm not certain how well I can pull it off, and If I lack confidence when the time comes for hardening I believe I will just oil quench and then temper the spine. This blade is maru-gitae from 5160 steel, so there is little hope of anything better than a plain, bland hamon anyway.

    The traditional hardening process is much more involved than oil quenching, and is very aggressive. There can be a fairly high rate of breakage even by the skilled. The results are astoundingly graceful though.

    as far as the gear cutter; Yes, I'm talking about horizontal milling, though this can be done of a vertical mill just as well by clamping your work perpendicular to the table.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  12. #32
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Essentially; we have a situation where I am working with modern materials and methods and so I could not apply the traditional methods directly to begin with. In trying to understand both the old and the new as best I can, I hope to find a compromise from which I can best honor the history and tradition of these blades with what I have to work with. It's going to be a long road. I am attracted to japanese blades (as well as scandinavian, and others) because of the complexity of them. Given the requirements of producing my own tamahagane, casting my own wootz or making blister steel, I figure I'll start from here see how far backwards I can work.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  13. #33
    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    Yes, I've been studying nihonto heat treatment for quite a while. I'm not certain how well I can pull it off, and If I lack confidence when the time comes for hardening I believe I will just oil quench and then temper the spine. This blade is maru-gitae from 5160 steel, so there is little hope of anything better than a plain, bland hamon anyway.

    The traditional hardening process is much more involved than oil quenching, and is very aggressive. There can be a fairly high rate of breakage even by the skilled. The results are astoundingly graceful though.

    as far as the gear cutter; Yes, I'm talking about horizontal milling, though this can be done of a vertical mill just as well by clamping your work perpendicular to the table.
    I get what your thinking now, and I agree, mill while the blade is still straight.
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
    Thomas Paine

    Minimalist Camping: Enjoy nature, don't be tortured by it. Take as little as you need to be safe and comfortable.

  14. #34
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    yep, then forging in the bevels (without crushing the edges of the hi) will impart the bend through the stock and hopefully not further distort the hi.

    I could always cut in the high in the old fashion way (I made a tool for cutting fullers on my scottish blades from a retired file) though that is very laborious, and I'm not very well practiced at it yet.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  15. #35
    Senior Member Skinner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canid View Post
    yep, then forging in the bevels (without crushing the edges of the hi) will impart the bend through the stock and hopefully not further distort the hi.

    I could always cut in the high in the old fashion way (I made a tool for cutting fullers on my scottish blades from a retired file) though that is very laborious, and I'm not very well practiced at it yet.
    Could you post a Pic of that tool that you made Have a Idea on a Dagger ,(Well My Youngest Son Has a Idea) ans So Far The Only way I Can See Doing it With the tools I Have is Buy Cutting the Fuller With a Grinder and Pray I Don't go to deep or skip off center Line.

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  16. #36
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Here is a picture of a much better one made by somebody else:

    http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19853709

    I will take a picture of my simpler and far less nice one the next time I'm out in the shop.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  17. #37
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    You would profile the cutting tip to the form you wanted your fuller, with appropriate clearance angle. Mine is just straight (so I did not have to bend and re-heat treat it. It is held perpendicular to the blade and drawn along. I'll get the pic when I am able.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  18. #38
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    this person also has a nifty jig for a dremel: http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/19853709
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  19. #39
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Sorry I didn't get right back with the pictures. here they are:

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    you can probably see that the tip of the cutting part is rounded off, and needs to be re-dressed. aside from that, it only requires being touched up as it dulls, and not cranking down on it too hard while cutting. for touching up i use 800 grit paper on a block.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    I do have several primitive bags belts and other buck-skinner gear made for "urban buffalo hide".

  20. #40
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Nifty little tool.....That really doesn't sound like I meant it.
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