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Thread: Fence posts?

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    Not a Mod finallyME's Avatar
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    Default Fence posts?

    Hopefully this falls into homesteading. Otherwise, mods, feel free to move to the proper section.

    So, I need to put up a fence around my yard. When I bought the house, the fence was blown down. We live in a pretty windy area. A lot of people who get vinyl fences end up with pieces all over the place. I was originally going to put in a wood fence with metal poles, but metal poles cost twice what a treated 4X4 costs. One of the problems with the old fence is that the posts (cedar 4X4) rotted out in the ground. I don't want that problem (one reason why I wanted to go with metal posts). So my question, what is the best way to anchor in the posts? I believe I read here that sinking them in concrete will rot them out faster. I have done posts in the past where I coat the bottoms with tar and then just sink them 2 ft in and pack the dirt around the post with a rock bar. Anyways, any advice is appreciated.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I've put in a lot of cedar fence posts and I refuse to use concrete. Even for gates. You will eventually have to replace that post and then you'll have to excavate the concrete along with the post. Mine is a 3 rail split rail and if I remember correctly the posts are 6' 6". I think I put them in 27" deep, which leaves 4 feet and a couple of inches above ground. Cedar posts around here last about 10-12 years. We have a fairly high water table. You hit water about 24 inches +/-.

    I dug down beside the existing posts enough to loosen them and extract them. I then slid the new posts in the hole making certain it was correct depth and no rotten wood was in it. I tamped it in with a frost bar.
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    I put up a privacy fence (board on board) next door about 4 years ago. I just used 4 X 4 PT posts - no concrete - no issues. I did my back yard the same way about 15 years ago. Still going strong with no issues.

    One thing I did do though was to use short galvanized deck screws to secure all of the slats. The staples that are used in the manufacturing process seem to fail rather quickly if any slats start to warp. It was a lot of screws, but it prevented "issues".
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    I put up a six foot "picket" type fence here about 15 years ago with 4x4 posts into the dirt, no cement or other treatment, is still as solid as ever, no signs of rot. Have replaced some of the pickets due to rot. This is a high humidity area.
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    We put some Cedar posts in down by the river , about 20 years ago , in cement.
    The old man I was working for made me pull the first 2 out and re do them, he said we should put them in a trash bag first , that will keep the moisture out. I drove by there about a week ago , fence is still there and holding cows in.
    We just put a good heavy trash bag around the postthen cemented around the trash bag , about 2' deep.
    We normally dont cement posts in around here , but we couldnt get the soil to pack , as it was too wet down there. YMMV
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    Not a Mod finallyME's Avatar
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    Crash, did you just dig the hole, and then tamp the dirt around the post?
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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    I did. I used 10 ft posts, cut off 1 ft and used a post hole digger for a 3 ft hole. That might have been over kill, 2 ft hole would probably have been fine.
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    I have a solid 1 1/4" steel bar about 6 foot long that I tamp with. I like old telephone poles for posts. If fancy is required I throw them on the skid way and saw them to a nominal 6 by 6 or 4 by 4. But I don't like fancy so usually they go in the ground as is.

  9. #9

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    I've done fence posts using pressure treated lumber (the good stuff, not the do-it-yourself-store stuff) with gravel at the base of the hole so the endgrain has no soil contact. Wouldn't want to seal the end grain with tar or anything that will keep water in the wood. Seems a plastic bag would do the same, keep water against the wood.
    Never tried a concrete collar, mostly cuz I don't ever want to have to dig the concrete out.
    I don't think I'd use pressure treated near a food garden though. I have to install a fence sometime this year in the side yard (to keep the neighbor's teenagers from parking their newly acquired cars on our land) and was considering cedar, only cuz the garden will be extended to the fence when it goes up.

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    Lone Wolf COWBOYSURVIVAL's Avatar
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    All good advice! I have a alot more fence posts than I want to think about. One thing I'll add, your posts should go in upside down. A tree wicks water from the ground, you want your posts to wick water downwards, the opposite of the way a tree grows....
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Is there like a growth arrow that tells you which way is up?
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    If its near a garden, get cedar posts. If not, treated will work. You have a couple of options. First is to just sink the 4x4s into the ground. Just make sure you get the bottom of the post at least a few inches below the frost line or your fence may heave. Your other option is to pour a concrete footing with a tiko or other brand of metal anchors and attach the 4x4 to that, which would be above ground. That's a lot of work though and costs a lot more for minimal advantage if any. DO NOT sink the 4x4 into concrete. Wood should not be in direct contact with cement. The cement will wick water into the post, which will cause it to rot faster. Probably the best way to do it would be to dig a larger hole than needed. put a few inches of gravel at the bottom, put the post in and surround it with gravel a few inches up the post, then back fill with dirt. This will allow a small area for water to drain away from the post.

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    My grandpa said something similar about the upside down thing. He used to make fence posts from Sassafras. If you didn't plant them upside down, often they'd root and grow.

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    I also agree with the idea of screwing off the planks in stead of the the staples. That is of course if you're putting up a privacy fence. You can just go more old fashion and put up a property line fence which won't catch the wind, but will still prevent cars and animals from getting past it (though deer can jump over it).

  15. #15

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    I don't know about those above ground anchors. They aren't meant to be non-load bearing and aren't really rated for the horizontal wind load a fence will get. Even one with 50% blow-thru. Be sure to check that before shelling out the money. They're expensive.

    You'd be surprised how much wind load you can get on something that has holes in it. We do staging covers using textaline mesh with as much as 70% blow-thru and still have to get an engineering stamp on the load.

    I didn't say set the post in a bucket of concrete. With gravel at the bottom, there is no concrete 'bucket' to hold the water against the wood. I know guys that do them that way and they seem fine, but like I said, I don't want to have to dig it out.
    Last edited by LowKey; 03-27-2012 at 10:15 PM.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You boys must have a deeper water table than we have around here. If you poured gravel in the hole it would just give the water a place to collect around here. Sort of like a well.
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    yeah, the water table here is just about 10 feet. Or an inch above the cellar floor pad. Depending on the season.

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    Lone Wolf COWBOYSURVIVAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Is there like a growth arrow that tells you which way is up?
    Most of us use the the fact that the narrow end should go in the ground...But especially for you Rick, take a good look at the knots...You are good at knots anyhow, right? Your knots should be growing towards the ground....but, then yours already are are right?
    Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    There must be a small spring across the street from me. My neighbor's house has a crawl space with a sump pump that runs almost all the time. I think the house must have been built on a spring. My crawlspace is dry as a bone but 10 feet away is my first fence post and I hit water at about 2 feet. We are the highest point around here so it's kinda odd. There are a lot of springs in the area, however.
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    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
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    This post disturbs me, because I had a deck built onto the back of my house last spring, and the guy that built it used pressure treated supports, and poured concrete around the posts. How long does it take the posts to rot when they are installed in that fashion? They are buried 2' deep, with a 8" x 8" paver in the bottom of each hole, with Sacrete around the post!
    Last edited by Wildthang; 03-28-2012 at 10:43 AM.

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