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Thread: Assistance Sought: Gerber BMF and original LMF Knives

  1. #41
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Note to all,

    I have now confirmed that Gerber produced SIX different BMF blade profiles (three with saw teeth and three without) rather than the four (two with, two without) that they acknowledged. As it now appears, they made the first change to the blade profiles without making a corresponding change in the model numbers. This has resulted in a fair amount of confusion among collectors (including me).

    Here are pics of the SIX blade profiles, grouped according to the presence (first pic) and absence (second pic) of saw teeth:

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    For those "rarity-hunters" among you, the middle knife in the "with-sawteeth" picture is by far the scarcest -- of nearly 400 BMFs I have documented to-date, only eight of them fall into this category.


  2. #42
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    Daniel, my BMF was purchased the summer of 84 while stationed at Ft. Knox, Ky. It was sold new to a service member, who returned it because he could not sharpen it for some reason. I bought it used from the Post Exchange for $75.00. It was complete minus the box, serial number #005011; 7 7/8” blade was scratched up but not really abused. It has the ALICE clip attachment, Silva Sweden compass w/black thread, and diamond sharpening stone attached to the rear of the sheath. It is like the top knife in the “with-sawteeth” photo. I carried it up until my discharge from the Army in the spring of 87. Both of my LMF knives were purchased via the internet from my AR-15 Forum buddies. Both of my LMF blades measures 5 7/8” appear to be new, unsharpened, as I am second owner on both. The serial numbers are as follows: 053655 & 053843. I paid around $100.00 each for both knives. I recently purchased another LMF knife from the AR-15 Forum for $105.00, serial number: 036666, it appears to have been sharpened, sheath shows a little wear with some fraying threads showing. It is coming out of Texas. I do not remember exactly where the other two came from. On occasions, some BMF knives come up for sale, ranging from new in the box to greatly used on the AR-15 Forum. Hope this helps you out!! I would post some pics, but my camera is MIA!!!!! Reference to your "rarity" sawtooth knife, I have seen a couple of them at the Indy 1500 Gun & Knife show in Indianapolis, Indiana. They had price tags of $300 or more on them, up in the realm of Randall Knives.
    Last edited by SpecWar; 09-01-2012 at 01:17 AM. Reason: Correction on BMF blade length.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    SpecWar,

    First, thank you for all the information about your BMF and LMF knives. I need to ask a couple of follow-up questions about the BMF. I also have a couple about your LMFs, but they'll be in a later post.

    First, if you can remember, what was the color of the logo on the sheath? Based on the S/N and that the sheath had ALICE clips, I'm thinking it was gold (actually yellow) thread on a black background, like this:

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    Second, can you recall which specific Silva compass was included? Was it a Silva Starter like this one:

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    or was it a Silva Type 12 like this one?

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    With that S/N it should have been a Silva Starter. If not, I'd REALLY like to know where it was originally purchased. I know you said that you purchased it at Fort Knox as a used knife, but to date I have not seen a single knife in that S/N range with a Type 12. There are, however, some indications that BMFs shipped to Australia, etc for retail sale may have substituted Type 12 compasses.

    Now, two quandaries. First, are you sure you purchased it in 1984? I ask because Gerber's records show the first production run of BMFs was in 1987. The serial number on your knife marks it as being toward the end of the first year of production.

    The next quandary is likely to actually be more of a typo. You described the BMF's blade as 5 3/4". If so, it is a full two inches shorter than it should have been; shorter than the smaller LMF. So far, the blades of all the first- and second-generation BMFs that I've documented (the top and middle knives in both of my pics) have approximately 7 7/8" blades.

    That's enough for now. More later. Really looking forward to your replies.

    Regards,

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 08-31-2012 at 03:32 PM.

  4. #44
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    Daniel, origional post corrected, BMF blade length was 7 7/8" long, could not read my chicken scratching of what I wrote down. Compass is the square Silva Starter with black cord as in your first pic and it did come with the knife along with the instructions which are gone. Thread color on the BMF & LMF sheaths are dark yellow/gold, and not white as I thought they were. Yes, I did buy the knife the spring/summer of 1984 as I got it right after I graduated from Armor Basic Training/A.I.T. at Ft. Knox as a present to myself for graduation. I received a medical discharge Friday, February 27th of 1987, that was a Leap Year and that Friday nite I was back in Indiana.


    Hope this helps out.

    Charlie
    Last edited by crashdive123; 09-01-2012 at 07:25 AM. Reason: Removed link to personal site
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  5. #45

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    Hi Daniel,

    I've had mine for many years and have been considering selling it. Then I came across your bulletin.

    I can give you all the details and have photos to substantiate it too. Mine is the serrated edge with the steel clip "quick-release clasp" for the broad military belt and the Recta compas in the pouch. The serial number is 015732

    I am in Johannesburg in South Africa and acquired it circa 1984 / 85

    Drop me a mail on *************** and then I can revert with the data you seek. The files are seemingly too big to upload.

    Tell me a bit more about yourself, if you do not mind. I was a bushcraft, tracking and survival instructor in the Special forces here in South Africa, having grown up in the country in the bush and forests. I'd be interested to share more with you.

    Regards,

    G




    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Nighteyes View Post
    Greetings to all,

    I recently joined this board, primarily due to AR-7's posting about his Gerber BMF knife. I am developing the definitive history of the Gerber BMF, and original LMF, knives for use by collectors and others.

    I have been working directly with Gerber, but unfortunately their historical information can best (and most diplomatically) be described as "spotty". So, I am now developing a knife-by-knife database. If any of you have one or more Gerber BMF knives, and/or original Gerber LMF, knives, please help me out.

    What I sorely need are (a) the serial number on the blade, (b) photos of the blade --there are four variations, (c) photos of the logo on the sheath -- there are three variations, (d) photos of the back of the sheath at the top -- there are three variations, and (e) for the BMF only, photos of the included compass -- there are two.


    Thanks!

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by crashdive123; 09-07-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  6. #46

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    I managed to use a lower resolution camera and take the pics you need. So here they are ...IMG_3882.jpgIMG_3883.jpgIMG_3884.jpgIMG_3885.jpgIMG_3888.jpg

  7. #47
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Hi GregAsh - welcome to the forum. I've removed your email address strictly as a safety precaution. If you would like me to put it back, I certainly will - or Daniel Nighteyes can send me a PM and I can recover it to give directly to him.

    You did not violate any forum rules or anything. I removed it simply to prevent it from being picked up by the spambots.
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  8. #48

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    Hi crashdive123,

    That's fine.

    Ai await any feedback, should it come from Daniel Nighteyes.

    Cheers,

    G

  9. #49
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GregAsh View Post
    Hi crashdive123,

    That's fine.

    Ai await any feedback, should it come from Daniel Nighteyes.

    Cheers,

    G

    GregAsh,

    First, my apologies for taking so long to respond. I have been away from this board for quite a while.

    The blade profile of your BMF is clearly one of the "first-pattern". The serial number on the blade, and the Bianchi clip and "silver" logo on the sheath, strongly suggests it left the Gerber factory some time during the second year of production -- I'd guess earlier rather than later. The Silva Starter compass is also consistent with this, although they were used for quite a bit longer.

    What is even more interesting to me is your the corroboration that these knives were available for purchase as early as 1984. My contact at Gerber said they were first available in 1987.

    Again, sorry for the delay. Your knife is now in my data-base.

    -- Nighteyes

    PS:

    Crashdive123, it is okay to send GregAsh my email address.

    -- N.E.
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 09-24-2012 at 12:04 AM.

  10. #50
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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  11. #51

    Default original LMF

    Mine is serial number 054338, non-serrated, bead blasted, has a "MADE IN USA" under the gerber Legendary blades logo. Never used to date, but thinking of using it to dispatch an alligator this weekend in SC.
    ---Bearslayer

  12. #52
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Bearslayer,

    If you're still around, I hope it means either that (a) you sobered up and thought better of the above statement, or that (b) no alligators were stupid - or hungry - enough to take you up on same. Otherwise, you're likely to be reading this from the safety & comfort of a hospital bed where you're displaying an obvious shortage of certain critical body appendages...
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 10-18-2012 at 07:37 PM.

  13. #53
    Junior Member Oklahoma cowboy's Avatar
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    Do you happen to know what the range on the serial numbers were for the first year of production for the Gerber BMF? Thank you for your help

  14. #54
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma cowboy View Post
    Do you happen to know what the range on the serial numbers were for the first year of production for the Gerber BMF? Thank you for your help
    If you have the original sheath, the best way is to look at the type of metal belt clip(s). Though this is not absolutely hard-and-fast, its looking very much like only the first-year knives came in sheaths with detachable ALICE clips (click on the pics for larger views):

    111 First Belt Clip - Removable ALICE Clips.jpg
    The ALICE clips are sewn onto a strip of webbing, which fastens with a snap. The snap is inside the sheath's belt loop.

    112 Detail - Removable ALICE Clips on first-type sheath.jpg

    I used to think that another distinction was the simple gold-on-black logo. Now I'm not so sure. Lately I've come across some sheaths with this logo, but with the Bianchi clip instead of ALICE clips. Not many of them, but enough to cause some head-scratching here at Casa Nighteyes.

    104 First Logo.jpg


    With all that said, my BEST-GUESS is that first-year BMFs have serial numbers from 001001 up through about 011700 or so. But don't go carving that into stone just yet...

    Regards,

    -- Nighteyes

  15. #55
    Junior Member Oklahoma cowboy's Avatar
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    Mine has the gold stitching and the clips are different than the clips you have in this picture. They pull out and go over the belt. And I have the BMF sawtooth. I will send you pics soon. Oklahoma cowboy

  16. #56
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma cowboy View Post
    Mine has the gold stitching and the clips are different than the clips you have in this picture. They pull out and go over the belt. And I have the BMF sawtooth. I will send you pics soon. Oklahoma cowboy
    For the stitching, be sure it is the gold thread ONLY -- later logos had a more-complex pattern that used both gold and "silver" thread, like this:

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    The clip you describe is the Bianchi clip, like this:

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    It was designed for the Bianchi UM-84 military belt holster (1911 and Beretta 92) and, AFAIK, has been on all military belt holsters since. You'll also find it on some military knife/bayonet sheaths either as "original equipment" or a later add-on option. I think the Bianchi clip is far better than ALICE clips, but then we all know that opinions are like... um, er, ah... noses, 'cause everybody's got one.


    The other critical piece of information is the serial number, found on the blade just below the "BMF" designation.
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 11-15-2012 at 03:15 PM.

  17. #57
    Junior Member Oklahoma cowboy's Avatar
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    Check this LMF out it is on EBAY right now and has a different handle than you show for the LMFslmt 2.jpgLMT.jpg

  18. #58
    Junior Member Oklahoma cowboy's Avatar
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    Here are the pics of my knife so what does the serial number show?DSCN0331.jpgDSCN0332.jpg

  19. #59
    Junior Member Oklahoma cowboy's Avatar
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    Daniel here are some better pictures of the LMF that has serial numbers with a strange handle. rusty 3.jpgrusty.jpg

  20. #60
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma cowboy View Post
    Daniel here are some better pictures of the LMF that has serial numbers with a strange handle. rusty 3.jpgrusty.jpg
    Ah, I see the problem! My pics are showing Gerber BMF knives. Because said knife is an original Gerber LMF, the handle isn't at all strange unless there's something that's not showing in the pic. And BTW, its a first-year-of-production knife. I know this because Gerber only produced this blade profile for one year!

    Now, as for your BMF, it is clearly one that has the longer (8 inches or so), "Third-Pattern" blade. When contrasted with the knife's serial number, the sheath's gold-and-silver-on-black logo strongly suggests that it is not original to the knife.

    Sorry that I cannot be more specific at the moment. My desktop computer fried on me the day before yesterday, and my knife records are on there. I'm not at all worried 'cause I've got 'em all backed up, but until I get another "big ol' computer" (I'm using my tiny l'il notebook for the moment) I can't access them.

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 11-16-2012 at 07:40 PM.

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