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Thread: Assistance Sought: Gerber BMF and original LMF Knives

  1. #21
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Hi Nighteyes... I have one, first year of production I think. Has the sawtooth blade back. Serial number is 003775, with a "SILVA" Swedish compass. No military type clip of sheath back, rectangular logo, lt brown thread on black. Still want pics?
    With that serial number and, if the "brown" thread could also be interpreted as "gold" (or yellow) thread, then I agree that it is most likely a first-year knife. What specific type of Silva Compass came with it? If it is a first-year knife, it should be an original Silva Starter compass like the one in this pic:

    108 First Compass - Silva Starter.jpg

    Also, since you said that there was "no military type clip of sheath back", I assume that you did not purchase this knife "new" -- most likely you purchased it from an individual who did purchase it new (and who removed the detachable ALICE clips before selling it to you).

    How am I doing so far?

    -- Nighteyes

    In case it matters, and with the help of folks like you, I have now documented over 300 Gerber BMF knives.

    -- N.E.
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 04-19-2012 at 06:34 PM.


  2. #22
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Daniel - I don't know what year that knife was made but if it was after 1998 and made in the USA then the "Silva" compass is made by Johnson Worldwide Outdoors. They own the Silva trademark in North America. They don't actually manufacture them. They contract that out but they do distribute them under the Silva name.

    Silva of Sweden, on the other hand, doesn't even exist anymore. Fiskars bought them a couple of years back and sold off the Brunton and Nexus names (which Silva operated under in the U.S.). Everything sold under the Silva of Sweden name today is made by Fiskars.

    I just thought that info might be helpful for your book.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Daniel - I don't know what year that knife was made but if it was after 1998 and made in the USA then the "Silva" compass is made by Johnson Worldwide Outdoors. They own the Silva trademark in North America. They don't actually manufacture them. They contract that out but they do distribute them under the Silva name.

    Silva of Sweden, on the other hand, doesn't even exist anymore. Fiskars bought them a couple of years back and sold off the Brunton and Nexus names (which Silva operated under in the U.S.). Everything sold under the Silva of Sweden name today is made by Fiskars.

    I just thought that info might be helpful for your book.
    Rick,

    ALL information is helpful. THANX!

    Now, with that said, Gerber stopped making the BMF and original LMF knives in 1997. While I have seen Silva Type 12 compasses that do not carry the "Sweden" mark (and in fact I own a couple), all the Type 12s that originally came with the BMF knives should have the "Sweden" designation. Gerber stopped including the Silva Starter compass many, MANY years earlier.

    I have now documented well over 300 BMFs, and more than 150 original LMFs. I know when the blade changes took place. Interestingly, I have recently come across a couple of undocumented BMF blade modifications (strictly speaking there are SIX BMF blade profiles rather than the FOUR profiles that Gerber acknowledges) that call my original classification efforts into question.

    In addition I have found six examples of BMFs that were made as OEM products for The Cutlery Shoppe, with unique serial numbers. I have also discovered that Gerber made and marketed a "Final Production Run" series of the original LMF, complete with unique blade markings and special sheath logo.

    WARNING! WARNING! INFORMATION OVERLOAD!

    I am redirecting my efforts to identifying when certain sheath changes (logo type, compass type, and the presence/absence of Bianchi clips) took place.

    And now, being that it is Friday, I am calling "MILLER TIME!" and heading directly to the fridge. Not passing GO, not collecting $200.

    Regards, and Happy Weekend!

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 04-27-2012 at 04:57 PM.

  4. #24

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    Greetings Nighteyes,

    I have purchased my LMF in 1998. Serial # is 052625.
    I'll update with photos later.

    Ace

    So now I hope this photo thing will work
    IMG_8356.jpg
    IMG_8357.jpg
    IMG_8359.jpg
    IMG_8360.jpg
    IMG_8361.jpg
    Last edited by Ace7711; 05-16-2012 at 03:51 PM.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Ace7711,

    Thanks, and the "photo thing" worked beautifully! You take good care of your stuff, for sure. With that serial number, it appears that yours was one of the last "regular" (meaning before the "Final Production Run") LMFs made.

    I am also quite interested in knowing more about the pouch shown in the last picture. Did you purchase it new? If so, do you remember the year that you purchased it? The reason for my question has to do with the logo on the pouch. It is the same one used on the "Final Production Run" LMFs.

    Thanks again!

    -- Nighteyes

  6. #26

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    The last picture shows how I attached my Gerber Multitool to the pouch of the knife. The original Logo of the knifes pouch is in picture 3.

    Regards,
    Andreas

  7. #27
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    I guess I'm going to show my vast knife knowledge here......I had never even heard of the LMF, or if I did, I don't remember. Thanks for taking us along on your research Daniel Nighteyes - it's been interesting.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace7711 View Post
    The last picture shows how I attached my Gerber Multitool to the pouch of the knife. The original Logo of the knifes pouch is in picture 3.

    Regards,
    Andreas
    Understood. My question is, do you remember the year that you purchased said multi-tool?

    It is the logo on the Multi-tool pouch that interests me. If I know when you purchased the multi-tool, it will give me a good idea of the date when the "Final Production Run" of the original Gerber LMF knives took place.

    Small detail -- great importance (to me, at least).

    -- Nighteyes

  9. #29
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    I guess I'm going to show my vast knife knowledge here......I had never even heard of the LMF, or if I did, I don't remember. Thanks for taking us along on your research Daniel Nighteyes - it's been interesting.
    Crashdive,

    You're by no means alone in that. The BMF outsold the original LMF -- at least according to my research to-date -- by about a 3-to-1 margin. The polls haven't closed, so the final numbers are still in doubt. Between you and me, I suspect that the modern-day Gerber company really doesn't know the sales figures. (SO MUCH was lost when Fiskars acquired Gerber....)

    Now here's the kicker. In my opinion, and that of myriad others, the original LMF is actually a good bit more useful than the BMF. I certainly found that to be true in real-world use back in the late 80s. Though it didn't come with a compass or sharpening steel, the original LMF's blade profile and length, plus its far more comfortable/functional handle, made it a good bit more effective in every-day use than its larger and more cumbersome brother.

    Once again, in my decidedly personal and unsupported opinion, Gerber introduced the BMF as a direct competitor to the Buck Model 184 "Buckmaster" knife. And, in fact, the BMF was better than the 184 in many ways. As is often the case the relatively unheralded, original, LMF was an order of magnitude better.

    It should be obvious that, as one who is attempting to document these knives, I own several examples of the BMF and the original LMF. It should also be obvious that, as a collector, I own hundreds of fixed-blade knives. Were I to be forced to choose ONE knife from my collection to be my personal, forever, companion, I would choose an early Gerber LMF -- one without the saw-toothed spine, of course.

    But that's just my opinion which, with the addition of about a buck-and-a-quarter, can get you a cuppa coffee at any McDonald's.

    Regards,

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 05-17-2012 at 06:55 PM.

  10. #30
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Daniel - I have that same multi-tool but I don't remember the year I bought it. I looked all over the tool for some kind of date. I even checked my file cabinet for the paperwork (yeah, I keep stuff like that) but it wasn't in there. I'll keep looking for the paperwork. I've had it for a long time but I'm sure I bought it after we moved here. That would be 1990 or later. I seem to remember that I bought it at the Farm and Fleet store. A SWAG would be 1995? and that's all it would be. I definitely bought it after 1990 and I'm sure before 2000. Sorry I can't be more precise.

  11. #31
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Rick, my friend:

    In the final analysis you are, in fact, a gentleman and a scholar. [Warning -- a Lord of the Rings movie quote follows!] As Sam Gamgee said to Faramir, "You have shown your quality, sir." Thanks so much for your efforts. (I truly mean that, and yes I'm probably a geek.)

    Let me add one additional bit of information. Gerber/Fiskars says it manufactured the original LMF through 1997. Whether they included the labeled "Final Production Run" LMFs in this is a mystery to me (and probably to them as well). The ONLY distinction I have been able to draw between the "regular" LMFs and the "final production run" LMFs is the logo on the sheath. In any case, the logo-change would have taken place around (shortly before or after) 1997.

    Any and all additional information will be welcomed and celebrated.

    Regards, and best wishes to all,

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 05-17-2012 at 06:44 PM.

  12. #32

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    Nighteyes, I bought the LMF in 1998 and the Multi-tool in 1997. Hope that helps.
    Regards,
    Andreas

  13. #33
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Andreas,

    Yes, it does help. It gives some weight to the possibility that Gerber included their "Final Production Run" LMFs in their stated production date range , 1988-1997.

    Thanks!

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace7711 View Post
    Nighteyes, I bought the LMF in 1998 and the Multi-tool in 1997. Hope that helps.
    Regards,
    Andreas
    I do recall that the Multi-tool is from 1993 not 1997.
    And I also just saw a picture of an LMF that had 'Final Production Run' on th blade number is 053174

  15. #35
    Semper Fidelis 0331exmc's Avatar
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    Default Another BMF

    Hello Daniel,

    Very interesting Thread you started here. I finally got a moment to take some pics so that I can add my BEAST to your data.

    My Mother, bless her soul, Bought me my BMF for my birthday in March 1987, as I was going into the Marine Corp soon after. I have no idea (Mom can not recall) if it was purchased in 1986 or 87. The serial number is 011511. Non-serrated blade back. No "gold" thread. I had a silva compass that came with the knife, but I lost that in Panama sometime long ago.

    Unfortunetly, I am not one to save boxes, so I do not have the original box to provide any info from such.
    I carried this BEAST in 2 combat zones during the 6 years I spent in the suck. She ain't all that pretty as I used her without restraint. Sorry for the blood stains. They just never scubbed out.

    I had a LMF that I had hit with some flat earth tone paint back in the day. Regretfully, I sold that to another Marine when I was phasing out. Sure wish I still had that Knife!

    Feel free to ask any question's If It can help your research.

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  16. #36
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0331exmc View Post
    Hello Daniel,

    Very interesting Thread you started here. I finally got a moment to take some pics so that I can add my BEAST to your data.

    My Mother, bless her soul, Bought me my BMF for my birthday in March 1987, as I was going into the Marine Corp soon after. I have no idea (Mom can not recall) if it was purchased in 1986 or 87. The serial number is 011511. Non-serrated blade back. No "gold" thread. I had a silva compass that came with the knife, but I lost that in Panama sometime long ago.

    Unfortunetly, I am not one to save boxes, so I do not have the original box to provide any info from such.
    I carried this BEAST in 2 combat zones during the 6 years I spent in the suck. She ain't all that pretty as I used her without restraint. Sorry for the blood stains. They just never scubbed out.

    I had a LMF that I had hit with some flat earth tone paint back in the day. Regretfully, I sold that to another Marine when I was phasing out. Sure wish I still had that Knife!

    Feel free to ask any question's If It can help your research.

    DSCF1211.jpgDSCF1203.jpgDSCF1205.jpgDSCF1202.jpg
    Many, many thanks, exmc!

    Your knife is of GREAT assistance to me, as it helps to round out what I've begun to call the "transitional" blades. By that I mean two specific (modified) blade profiles that Gerber introduced without labelling them as different blade profiles. Apparently they still considered them as part of what I've started calling "First-Pattern" blades. This in spite of the fact that they are materially different from the true "first-pattern" blades AND the true "second-pattern" blades. (To explain this further would require an encyclopedia's-worth of information, which I should not post here.)

    Muchos gracias, mi amigo!

    -- Nighteyes
    Last edited by Daniel Nighteyes; 05-21-2012 at 07:57 PM.

  17. #37

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    Hello, Nighteyes.

    My father-in-law has a Gerber LMF Sawback with serial 001268. I have a few pictures, hope this helps!gerber1.jpggerber2.jpg

    Also, any history on this knife would be much appreciated!

  18. #38
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    Sir, I have a BMF w/sawteeth, silva starter compass, and the ALICE clips, and two LMF Gerbers plain blades. All of them are in the toy box (vault) right now. Will get you the serial numbers and some pics hopefully before the end of the week. I did have the compass directions, but I think they have been thrown away...

  19. #39
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbrault74 View Post
    Hello, Nighteyes.

    My father-in-law has a Gerber LMF Sawback with serial 001268. I have a few pictures, hope this helps!gerber1.jpggerber2.jpg

    Also, any history on this knife would be much appreciated!
    Hello, and my apologies for the delay.

    This is clearly a first-generation LMF knife, manufactured in the first year of production (1988). Gerber referred to it as a Model 5940. The very early serial number -- as best Gerber or anyone else can tell, Gerber began the serial numbering at 001001 -- strongly suggests it is the 268th LMF to be manufactured.

    Beginning roughly in 1989 they switched to what I call the "second-pattern" knives (in the case of saw-backed blades, the Model 5959).

    Your knife's present sentimental value is likely to exceed its actual financial value. However, over time, this may change.

  20. #40
    Senior Member Daniel Nighteyes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecWar View Post
    Sir, I have a BMF w/sawteeth, silva starter compass, and the ALICE clips, and two LMF Gerbers plain blades. All of them are in the toy box (vault) right now. Will get you the serial numbers and some pics hopefully before the end of the week. I did have the compass directions, but I think they have been thrown away...
    Thanks! I look forward to receiving the information.

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