Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30

Thread: Prisoners after SHTF

  1. #1
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,760

    Default Prisoners after SHTF

    I was just sitting here pondering on what would happen to prisoners when the SHTF. It's kind of scary to think that they might all finally escape, or be set free due to lack of infrastructure to support the prison system. Luckily I dont live anywhere close to a prison, but a close friend does. and of course if you lived by a prison, it would be even a bigger concern. I have to think that they would probably just blend in with all of the rest of the people that wants to take what's yours, but it seems like prisoners would be even more hostile that average desperate citizens, and much more dangerous.
    Do any of you guys live by a large prison, and have you thought about this scenario?

    Wesley-Rawles seems to think they will eventually be let out when they can no longer be properly fed, according to "Patriots".
    Maybe a month post-fan, could be less, could be more.

    The big issues within "The System" are multiple. If the power grid fails, they won't have enough fuel to run their generators for very long.
    The guards have a "Force Multiplier" with the camera systems within the jails and prisons. If those fail, you have to add 3-5 more personnel per pod/block/floor.
    A lot of the inner gates are electronically controlled from a central guard house. If you can't buzz in and out, things will get dicey.

    If there is a water shortage or complete failure, hygiene will be non-existent and disease will spread rapidly within "the walls".

    Food...there are one or two, maybe a few prisons that raise their own livestock and do their own gardening. That's a very small minority of incarcerated people, though.
    LA county jail probably houses more prisoners on a daily basis than the ones that are somewhat self-supported. I can't see Los Angeles County moving into the countryside so they can provide their own food.

    Considering that big county jails like LA County house 19000 inmates on a daily basis, yes 19 THOUSAND inmates, they cannot possibly expect to maintain security without their force multipliers, food, and water.

    They only have two options...
    Let them out
    Leave them locked up to starve/disease them out

    Stats on wikipedia (we know how that goes, but it was easily found, how accurate? not sure) state that....
    "In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole)"

    "In addition, there were 86,927 held in juvenile facilities as of the 2007 Census of Juveniles in Residential Placement (CJRP), conducted by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.[12][13]" (Different year study, but an idea of number of under 18 behind bars).

    Essentially 3% (give or take) of the ADULT population is incarcerated based on the numbers from 2009.

    Not only are there that many, but a good portion of them are known to be "gang" affiliated. There are a bunch that are NOT yet "known" to be affiliated, yet probably are. Essentially that means is the bad guys run in packs, in the jails or not, and they don't care about the consequences of going into the penal system to begin with, so think of how they'll feel if they get let OUT and there is NO MORE CHANCE OF BEING LOCKED UP?

    In essence, there's gonna be wild and crazy "somewhat normal" folk out there going haywire because it hit the fan, and then we'll have to add in the MZB's from the incarcerated 3% of the population (which does NOT include the under 18 thugs who either haven't been caught yet or dropped off the radar when they turned 18.

    How's THAT for warm and fuzzy?
    Last edited by Wildthang; 02-24-2012 at 03:03 PM.


  2. #2
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    55,594

    Default

    I'm not sure what you envision happening but why do you think they would be turned loose? We've had a lot of catastrophes and it's never happened. I seriously doubt that's something you have to be concerned about.

  3. #3
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,760

    Default

    But have we had a very extended loss of infrastructure? After several months of no food, power, and water, would they just keep them locked up and let them starve? And they could escape as a result of guards getting laid off or quitting. The guards may want to bug out to take care of their families and say to heck with the prison.
    Was just wondering Rick, but just because it has never happened doesn't mean it cant!

  4. #4
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    55,594

    Default

    I think the prisoners in New Orleans were abandoned for several days then transferred to other facilities. I'm sure temporary facilities would be established if there were no place to transport them.

  5. #5
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,760

    Default

    I'm glad you're sure!

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,056

    Default

    I would think it depends on the level of severity of a SHTF scenario. Katrina, they were left for a few days then transferred, no big deal. Something more serious, complete implosion of government and such? Well, it would depend on the guards. Water and food become a priority, do they share it with the prisoners or just let them die? No expert can predict that because it comes down to the individuals in that situation. If the guards evacuate the premises, which are under direct threat of destruction and total death, do they unlock everything first or not? Again, depends on the guards there at the time.
    It would also depend on when the catastrophe happened. Are the prisoners all in their cells or in the yard? Is it meal time, etc? Too many variables to make any accurate statement of what if.

    This also takes a closed minded look at felon mentality. If the world was in ruin, it would be short sighted to think that all of them would continue on a lawless path. Extreme circumstances can change a persons behavior in ways you may not think. Someone who is in there for killing 20 opposing gang members may be loyal to a group of people that will help him survive in the aftermath, perhaps even with the guards.

    For the most part, I wouldn't fear escaped felons any more or less than the rest of the masses of people who want what I might have. I don't see the line in the sand that means a felon will be more of a threat than my neighbor.

  7. #7
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    3,935

    Default

    If "the system" couldn't keep all the inmates and had to let some out, I'm sure it would be done on a priority basis. I would guess that the ones due to be released soon anyways would be the first out the door, along with the ones with lesser charges such as minor drug possession, unpaid child support, and shoplifting to name a few. I don't think that Joe Cannibal who ate three dozen children and Sylvester the Molester with multiple convections of kidnapping and rape will be first in line. I haven't researched it though. I do have a prison about 30minutes drive from me. I might have to give them a call and see what I can find out.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,056

    Default

    Agreed. It wouldn't be an all or none issue. Some may be released and others left to die.

  9. #9
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    3,935

    Default

    Well, I just called the local facility and I got a "WHERE ARE YOU CALLING FROM?!" followed by a "NO THEY DON'T GET RELEASED!!!!"

    Something tells me they don't like questions like that. Something tells me I just got put on a list I didn't even know existed!

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Dakota
    Posts
    252

    Default

    Let them come over to my side and play some hard knocks. I got the dice.

  11. #11
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    3,935

    Default

    Okay, I just spoke to a much nicer person at the Ohio Dept. of Rehabilitation and Corrections. She stated that they will try to keep everything at the facility, but that all facilities have the capability to evacuate the facility in a very short period of time and transfer to other locations. She said under no circumstances do any prisoners get released.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    699

    Default Escape from Alcatraz

    Sounds like typical bureaucratic spin. Surely there is a threshold at which inmates would be released or escape to fend for themselves.

    Admittedly this is a very long shot, but if this scenario were to play out I imagine you would also have a lot of criminal activity from non-traditional sources. A sink or swim survival of the fittest mentality. It would make good preperation and contingency planning all the more important. The worst possible scenario which would likely require "moderate group" response. A pool of individuals with a diverse set of workskills and a shared responsibility for maintenance of basic communal needs including things like sanitation, shelter, sustinence and security.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    S.W. Idaho, USA
    Posts
    839

    Default

    WildThang, your avatar says it all in answer to your question.

    S.M.

  14. #14
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    KY bluegrass region-the center of the universe
    Posts
    8,823

    Default

    Now really, do you think the governments, local, state and federal, have contingency plans for release of prisoners in case of famine, plague and pestilence?

    Do you think they expect famine, plague, pestilence or social breakdown?

    Somehow I can not see the officials in charge of these systems calling a conference to deal with "end of the world senerios".

    Also consider that most of our corrections facilities are now privatized and not run by the government. They only abide by government standards and regualtions. What happens at a government run institution and what happens at a "private corporation facility" might be two different senerios entirely.

    There was a time when prisons were used to house debtors. Yes, debt was a crime.

    Violent or pety Criminals were delt with by branding/mutilation, so they could be identified easily, or execustion. No one fed, clothed and sheltered a bad person longer than it took to gather a good crowd and hang them.

    We might think that to be a better system, but the murder rates and other violent crimes were much higher then in relation to the population. The fact that 1 out of 37 adults is incarcerated is what makes it possible for people to walk around unarmed and scoff at us gun toters.
    Last edited by kyratshooter; 02-24-2012 at 09:06 PM.
    We came here to have family fun so shut up and make a freekin' smore!

  15. #15
    Senior Member natertot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    3,935

    Default

    Kyrat, I know they don't think about social break down and whatever else. I threw out the scenario of earthquake, tornado damage, and flooding as examples to the gal. Those are things that do happen in our neck of the woods. Is it a general PR answer? Probably. I'm not sure how KY does there corrections, but in Ohio, none of them are privatized.

  16. #16
    110 degrees in the shade TucsonMax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Tucson suburbs
    Posts
    267

    Default

    My bet is, if the scenario is serious, nationwide (not localized to only one area) and lasts more than 3-4 days, with no end in sight, everyone from the warden down, will go home to help/protect their families and communities and the inmates will be left in their cells to die.
    Chance favors the prepared mind.

  17. #17
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    55,594

    Default

    Every prison has a disaster plan in place. Google "Department of Corrections Disaster Plan" and pick out your state to see what they have.

  18. #18
    Resident Wildman Wildthang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,760

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Every prison has a disaster plan in place. Google "Department of Corrections Disaster Plan" and pick out your state to see what they have.
    Well they would have to have a plan, but I would be willing to bet that it is not based on a very lengthy breakdown of infrastructure and total social chaos. .Yes they all must have a plan, but it is only based on whatever the minimum requirements set by the goverment.

  19. #19
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    55,594

    Default

    ......Uncle.

  20. #20
    Senior Member SemperFi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Oklahoma Territory
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Well to be clear on the subject , I worked at a Federal Maximum Security Penitentiary In the Central Coast of California , the inmates will not be released , possibly minimum security inmates could be released because theres no fence around them anyway , but they would probably end up helping the staff because it would look favorable upon there release date! Anyone with a level above minimum would not be released ! Now in a situation where a real SHTF comes along like virus spreading and killing off people , the guards would actually abandon there post (just my thought) and so would most people , with that said , Im sure many inmates would be released because staff form relationships with inmates casual friendships , its human nature and they would to release these inmates , most would perish in there cells , some would figure out a way to get out ,its enevitable , my experience shows me that when one gets a chance he will not come after there civilian population nearby he disappears , they will however in this situtation go after there enemies inside and likely kill them !

    Prisons in general are actually a great location for a SHTF sitiuation because they are enclosed communities which have food,medical,security and entire infrastructure! Think if SHTF ,a great idea would be to locate a prison , infiltrate the prison , kill off all th inmates ,now you have a formidable fortress!
    US Marines
    NRA Life Member

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •