Cash is pretty much useless.

**Rick** · 02-02-2012, 04:15 PM

I just don't get bothered by too much. I try to look at things objectively and without emotion. Life is really pretty simple to me. The less you worry about the happier life is.

**Sparky93** · 02-02-2012, 04:34 PM

When I first read this thread title I thought it said Crash is pretty much useless, thought somebody was calling crash out....

**crashdive123** · 02-02-2012, 04:36 PM

Well, I suppose there is that.

**Winter** · 02-02-2012, 08:21 PM

I'm with ya V.

I don't like my purchases tracked. I do not use a credit card, only a debit, and I only use that online.

I pay everything with cash. Mortgage, utilities, everything.

"Why are you worried about it if you ain't doing anything wrong?" Well, because what is lawful and legal today may not be tomorrow.

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**Wildthang** · 02-02-2012, 09:53 PM

Well you either conform to the system, or go totally off the grid in a self sufficient manner, or find a happy medium, or create a fake identity then they wont know who they are tracking!

**Rick** · 02-02-2012, 10:46 PM

Fortunately no one can track social security cards, driver's licenses, mortgages, real estate or payroll taxes, utilities, debit cards, vehicle and boat titles. Tomorrow morning when you walk out just look up and wave at the pretty satellite overhead.

I've roofed my house with foil so the space waves can't get in. If I ever have a house fire, bring potatoes.

**kyratshooter** · 02-02-2012, 11:46 PM

Wonder what they are going to charge me with when read my purchase file and find out I bought the hi octane salid dressing instead of the low fat?

They will probably think I am up to something for buying all that frozen chicken too. Mythbusters was taking out plane windshields with those bad boys a while back.

**Winter** · 02-03-2012, 01:57 AM

Trust what you want. I don't wanna be the Berlin 1940 jew who wasn't paying attention in 1936.

**Rick** · 02-03-2012, 08:05 AM

There's a huge difference between living off grid and living under the radar. If you want to live under the radar then you won't be you and you won't own anything in your name. It can certainly be done and a lot of folks are doing it but the first time you sign your name to an ownership document you're back on the radar.

**Wildthang** · 02-03-2012, 10:52 AM

Darnit, I lost my tinfoil hat

**finallyME** · 02-03-2012, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sparky93

When I first read this thread title I thought it said Crash is pretty much useless, thought somebody was calling crash out....

I thought the same thing.

**oldtrap59** · 02-03-2012, 01:27 PM

I've often wondered if the foil works? Or if it does,how do you know for sure?

Oldtrap

**lucznik** · 02-03-2012, 01:50 PM

Just a few thoughts:

Originally Posted by vahtryn

I'm starting to learn that going back "off grid" when it comes to the tracking of purchases… I'm having huge issues in modern day society…

Did you imagine going “off grid” would be somehow different? If you choose to eschew modern standards and practices, can you really expect things to go easily or smoothly?

Originally Posted by vahtryn

I've spent most of my life without having a credit card [or] taking loans…
…did get a car loan so I could build some credit so I can buy land soon…
…I have also tried to spend my life to where I cannot be traced based on what's in a database…

This whole menagerie of ideas is completely schizophrenic, not to mention self defeating. You’re either on the grid or off the grid. There is no middle ground.

Originally Posted by vahtryn

Banks wouldn't accept me to cash my checks and so I had to establish myself again. Get a lease, get a place to live, show I'm paying bills.
…Since right now I can't get a bank account…

Something’s not right here. I “force” people to get bank accounts all the time. There are tons of banks (and even better Credit Unions) where you can get a checking account totally free and all you need is your Driver License (or other ID). You had to have proper ID to establish your legal ability to work in the first place so; since you’re (presumably legally) employed, there shouldn’t be any problem there. No credit checks, no security checks, no life history to report, no co-signer needed, nothing. You don’t even need a fixed address of your own; a post office box or even a friend’s address will do just fine.

If that’s still too hard, you take the check to an office of the bank from which it was issued and they will cash it on the spot. Again, all you need is your photo ID to show you are the person named on the check.

Originally Posted by vahtryn

Now I can't even get my checks unless I have some form of account for direct deposit…

When we decided to start using direct deposit we made a choice to require that our employees use the service. There was no “opt out” option. This meant that I had to tell bunches of employees that they either opened an account at the bank of their choice or they lose their job.

Oh, the weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth I endured – for MONTHS. But, in the end they all survived it. We didn’t terminate a single employee over the issue. Those who don’t like banks can stop in first thing in the morning on payday and withdraw every penny if they choose. In fact, they can have cash in hand earlier than I would have ever been available to hand them a check, which they would have then had to take to a bank to have cashed. It’s a Win-Win for all. What’s more important, I save literally hundreds of hours every year now that I don’t have to be tied to my office handing out paychecks, tracking who hasn’t cashed their checks, issuing replacements for “lost” checks, etc. As a result, I have no sympathy for those who feel that direct deposit somehow inconveniences them.

Originally Posted by vahtryn

… California… won't even cash the money order I sent them. It looks like I have to [go] back to San Francisco and sign something to say I sent the… money order from the USPS. So it's not bad enough that I'm being ripped off because of a ticket my ex got in my car, I have to pay that and pay for a flight back across country to deal with it?

1. Don’t pay the ticket. Since you don’t live there anymore, what is Kalifornia going to do to you? (Just don’t go back and get pulled over :-) )
2. If you had paid by check or debit/credit card, you would have had a paper trail to prove you had sent the money.

Originally Posted by vahtryn

For tracking. You cannot be tracked if you pay cash…

I wouldn’t be willing to bet on this. I think most people trying desperately to live “off the grid” would be surprised to discover how truly “ON the grid” they really are.

Originally Posted by vahtryn

As for taxation. Pretty much everything that tax money is spent on I have never utilized. Schools? Like I really care about the future generation since I can't have children. Libraries? I haven't used one since I was 14 and in high school. I gets my reading elsewhere. Social programs to help these so called worthless people? Neither me, nor anyone, in my family has ever had food stamps or been on welfare. Social security? My grandmother can't even get her cheque from that. What's the damn point in shuffling around loot if it ain't gonna be used.

Yes I am very conservative when it comes to government and taxation.

What you are describing is not “conservative”; it’s short-sighted anarchy.

1. YOU went to High School so; you DID utilize the services.
2. YOU used the library (in High School) so; you DID utilize the services.

You weren't paying taxes during this period of your life anymore than the kids going to school today are.

3. Be careful how "worthless" you decide people are. There are certainly people who game the system but, the majority of people using social services are good, hard working people who have had a run of bad luck or who don't have access to services that the more wealthy take for granted. Yes, there are problems to be solved with the management of these systems, but that's not the fault of the people (often children) who need them.
4. Social Security isn't bankrupt (yet). They are still issuing checks. If your Grandma is having trouble getting a rightfully-owed check, then there is a problem to be fixed somewhere. Stop whining about the system and go help her get the problem resolved. -- By the way, Social Security is one of those social programs you were railing against. Is Grandma one of the "so-called worthless people" to whom you were referring?

**Rick** · 02-03-2012, 01:57 PM

+1. Excellent post.

**SARKY** · 02-03-2012, 02:26 PM

Find a Credit Union, Open an account with a checking account. You will most likely earn interest on both the savings and checking accounts. Write checks to pay your bills.

**southard** · 02-03-2012, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by vahtryn

Well apparently I didn't get everything out in that rant. For starters why hire my old lawyer in another state on retainer to pay a bill for an additional two thousand dollars that I will not get back. Sure he'll protect me in that state but I don't live there and have a feeling I'm not exactly gonna break any state laws there living in another state. Flying back out west is a hell of a lot cheaper than that.

For tracking. You cannot be tracked if you pay cash, yet you can be penalized for paying cash. That is the point I'm getting across. There are even banking fees for using banks. They do not want you to get access to the money that you truly earn. This is one of the reasons that many people cannot survive on a basic wage.

Will I give any of you my spare loot? Hell no. I will use this useless cash and find someone shady enough to spend it with to get my dream. That dream is land and to get out of this crazy society that we've built ourselves on.

As for taxation. Pretty much everything that tax money is spent on I have never utilized. Schools? Like I really care about the future generation since I can't have children. Libraries? I haven't used one since I was 14 and in high school. I gets my reading elsewhere. Social programs to help these so called worthless people? Neither me, nor anyone, in my family has ever had food stamps or been on welfare. Social security? My grandmother can't even get her cheque from that. What's the damn point in shuffling around loot if it ain't gonna be used.

Yes I am very conservative when it comes to government and taxation. It's not because I want more dollar signs on my pay cheques, it's because I don't believe I should have to pay to help someone else that isn't willing to get off their asses.

For tracking purposes. It's easier to track someone when using a credit card or a bank. These things are done via computers and there are records that are required to be kept for certain lengths of time. There are certain compliancies that companies have to adhere to in regards to this, especially during audits when it comes to any information coming and going. I do realize that I am facilitating this with my current job but it also doesn't mean that I, or anybody else, should be forced into it.

Why pay your old lawyer $2,000, get one of the ticket specialists they charge maybe an 1/8 of that. Your not just paying for your flight to and from but evidently you don't value your time since you'll have to take time off during the work week to fix it.
Wait you have a cell phone right and since you are an IT guy i assume its a smartphone. Well they can track you by triangulation of towers or by the tracking programs in all smartphones.
Your cell contract is only 2 years, don't get a new phone at the end of your contract then you'll be month to month. Your phones broke guess what with ATT you can buy a burner phone and put your sim card in it for like $60.