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Thread: I met a neat group that's living it.

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyt View Post
    , the teacher cringed when she saw little ricky coming through the door. <G>
    Does this still have something to do with that 7th grade gym locker room?


  2. #82

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    Thank you Batch, it most likely does LOL.

  3. #83
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I was the only kid in gym class that wore a hong.

  4. #84
    Senior Member TresMon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    But we do. No facility can deny care based on the patient's inability to pay.
    That’s not “free” to the person in need. I had heard that too. Once upon a time I did not have money to afford any medical care, but had an emergency. So upon the “they have to treat you” premise I went to the ER. They fixed me. I told them I had no monies.
    Well I was turned over to collection agents and firms and all the merry stuff that goes with that and the damaged credit etc. etc. That version is the furthest from free their is, I guarantee! Honest to God if I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now I would NOT go to the ER and just rolled the dice with fate. True I was a wet behind the ears naive kid, but I was going off the misleading "they must treat you" rumor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Batch View Post
    Ok, so anyone have an insight into the historical long term sustainability of communes?
    Per my understanding of a true commune the one in the OP is not. As far as longevity it’s been going over a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by randyt View Post
    Rick, you are a turkey LOL. I bet in school you were the class smart acre, the teacher cringed when she saw little ricky coming through the door. <G>
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I was the only kid in gym class that wore a hong.
    AN ACRE OF HONG??? Umm, please delete my membership and all traceTres was part of this forum! EEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeKK!
    Last edited by TresMon; 01-29-2012 at 03:49 PM.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thanks,
    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

  5. #85

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    It was the a double s that I wanted to use. Acre was my attempt to keep it PG rated. It worked until Rick showed up with his hong. LOL.

  6. #86
    Senior Member payne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TresMon View Post
    When I lived in Scotland, I got free med care because I was a "visitor." I really appreciated that! And was SO grateful.
    That's doing it right if you ask me.

    However, In the same place there were strung out teens alcoholic teens and pregnant GIRLS galore. It was referred to me the Scotland has the #1 teen pregnancy rate in the world. Poland Was # 2, but Scotland's numbers were double Poland's. (these facts were given to me by ministry people and may no longer be accurate.) Why the teen problems? I was told Scotland has the strongest social welfare program in the world. There too your an adult at 16 I think it was... and hard liquor is sold in the gas stations. AND- All a teen had to do at 16 is file the paperwork that their folks had kicked them out and in short order they would begin receiving guv'ment checks. Now- Had I got free guv'ment checks at age 16 only by saying I've been kicked out, and hard liquor was for sale to me everywhere, I'd have been an alcoholic too and probably impregnated a few lasses. No wonder they have the teen problem. That's obviously not a good freebie.

    My point is freebies can be REALLY helpful and appreciated. However it's FAR easier and more often done wrong.
    That's just an example of something not properly designed and implemented. I don't see how it can be used to discredit any left-leaning type of government.
    Just like I cannot discredit right-leaning government for a flaw that'd allow anyone to abuse of the system.

    And I guess it's a thing of values: I personally find it fairly egoistic to refuse to have your tax-money get used to help other people that need it.
    Now if you're argument against it is that these people don't "need" it and are only abusing it, then I'm on your side. But this is, once again, just an example of how the system is not properly designed.
    Do not discredit the whole ideology just because one of the things we have decided to implement hasn't been incorporated into our society correctly. Reforms and corrections are always possible.

    For the concern on communes' sustainability: I guess the ones that we hear of the most are the ones created by the ideological youth, and since they are usually lacking a bit of life experience and rationality, they often fall into impossibly radical utopias that do not even follow their own values. If we try to look for older persons trying to perpetuate this kind of values, it looks like it's going pretty well. Here's a website listing a few attempts of what is called "intentional communities": http://directory.ic.org/
    Different forms of progressive/left-leaning micro-communities are listed there. I think it's a database mostly oriented toward the United States' regions.
    I haven't explored it much yet, though.
    Last edited by payne; 01-29-2012 at 04:21 PM.

  7. #87
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    Tres - Of course the institutions attempt to recoup payment. I just said they can't refuse to treat you. Most patients don't give a rat's behind if it goes to a collection agency or not...if they even gave their correct name.

    Payne - Notice that you've said cimmunes "attempted" or "tried" (not meaning to misquote you here). They just don't seem to succeed for a variety of reasons. I don't oppose them I just don't think they are sustainable.

    I have no problem with state sponsored health care or state sponsored education as long as both offer high quality and are affordable for the supporting government. We can't afford either in the U.S. because we have chosen to spend our money, rightly or wrongly, on other endeavors.

    I think if you look closely at the best examples of Communism and there are only a handful of one party Communist states you'll find they are either horribly impoverished, converting to a more democratic style to encourage class reform or both. The very same is true for socialism with some countries in both sub categories of government. China is an example as is Cuba.

    Let us take a simple real world example. Let us say my neighbor is a single mom with two kids. A woman that wants to work but can't afford day care and has no skills or education to garner a higher paying job. She is currently on welfare, receives food stamps. She is currently receiving state aid that pays for her education, her rent and child care while she is in school (many states offer similar programs to enable folks to break the welfare cycle).

    On the other hand, I am married with three kids. Both my wife and I work. While we are not rich we make enough to get by and some months put a little back for a rainy day.

    Under your scenario I would have to give up enough of my wealth to bring my neighbor up to some middle standard where we both would be equal (considering income and gov't aid).

    Both are real world examples that happen today. How is it fair that my standard of living should be compromised for my neighbor and what is her incentive to improve? In fact, the less she does the more I have to give her until both of us are in poverty.

  8. #88

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    That's pretty cool! Similar to what I want to do I guess, mind you I want to completely isolate myself and whoever wants to join me from all civilization in a 500kmX500km square patch of the northwest rockies.

    Good for them in living how they wanna live though for sure!

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyadam View Post
    That's pretty cool! Similar to what I want to do I guess, mind you I want to completely isolate myself and whoever wants to join me from all civilization in a 500kmX500km square patch of the northwest rockies.

    Good for them in living how they wanna live though for sure!
    Who's land do you plan on doing this on?
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Oh, the BLM of course. Since they own just about all of the Northwest Rockies in the form of national forests. The northern 2/3s of Idaho and western Montana are almost all national forests.

  11. #91

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    Crashdive123 from what I hear, which I have yet to cross reference and find out for sure mind you, there's tons of crown land in the rockies.

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    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyadam View Post
    Crashdive123 from what I hear, which I have yet to cross reference and find out for sure mind you, there's tons of crown land in the rockies.
    I'm not real up on Crown land, but it would be an important part of your planning. I have read that Canadian citizens can build non-permanent structures, but can only stay for 21 days in the same location. Not sure if new Crown Leases are still available or you would have to purchase an existing one. There was a fellow on here a while back that was looking to sell his. He had a great set up, but it wasn't cheap to buy or to maintain.
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    Land of a thousand lakes Northern Horseman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    The Earth will take care of it's self. Humans are the Cancer multiplying and destroying the earth. Mankind will do NOTHING to change our gluttonous behavior, and as a result about two billion human thingies will die. No big deal, it just going to stink for a while.
    Your opinion reminds me of Agent Smith



    I must say this topic has gone just about everywhere; From living off the land to living off the system, to live and let live.
    heck, were even sending money to the poor people of Africa (who by the way use to live in harmony with nature until we showed up (rarely harmony with each other)
    I think a truly good and working social net can only work in a country that focuses on production and buying their own goods, we've become too reliant on other countries to produce stuff for us for cheaper, in effect sabotaging our own work forces, I won't even get into what were doing to the farmers by making it so they can't produce their own seed anymore or ranchers to slaughter and sell their own meat, or sell dairy.
    Slowly we are giving away all our rights to even produce our own food (legally)
    Were raising a generation that feels they are entitled to a living and hoping they will create enough of a tax base to support the elderly (good luck with that one)
    We our creating a mess for our children that they will be unprepared or unwilling to clean up.

    The man who makes everything that leads to happiness depends upon himself, and not upon other men, has adopted the very best plan for living happily. This is the man of moderation, the man of manly character and of wisdom.
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    The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
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  14. #94
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH
    who by the way use to live in harmony with nature
    That's why millions have died from starvation, disease and lack of clean water.

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    Originally Posted by NH
    "... who by the way use to live in harmony with nature."


    RICK - "That's why millions have died from starvation, disease and lack of clean water."
    Not to mention thousands of years of tribal and clan warfare, cannibalism, thievery, and acceptable and normal slavery of the peoples of the conquered tribes.

    As for Mr. Payne's deluded and illogical endorsement of a "worldwide Communistic Utopia," if it were only "applied correctly, efficiently, and of course, fairly," by well meaning bureaucratic managers of extremely superior intellect who would know what was best for all the worker peasants, I'm afraid he's living in a dream world which has virtually no relation to reality.

    That's not unusual for those young people who have been brainwashed by their Marxist Socialist inspired (and some times actual Communist Party card carriers), in schools from Kindergarten through Graduate school.

    Most of their teachers and professors never have had an actual job of creating a product, a business, or getting down in the trenches and competing with others who are also striving to work hard and achieve success. Their spiel is always the same, as Mr. Payne said, "We need to take everything from those who are hardworking and successful and give it to those who aren't. Then everyone in the world will be equally miserable. That's only fair."

    No matter, those who are brainwashed with the idiotic nonsense of Marx and Lenin (and I don't mean "Groucho" and "John") will almost never change their ideology even when being faced with the reality of life in the real world. It's always the same, "Well, it just wasn't applied correctly. I can do it right!!"

    Mr. Payne, you might read a novel entitled Animal Farm, by George Orwell. Pretty good book. It might give you a different perspective. But maybe not.

    And life goes on.

    S.M.

  16. #96
    Senior Member payne's Avatar
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    S.M., I will not lie to you, your intervention really irritates me. Ricky has proven to be a great debater that can keep his calm and expose his point of view with a neutral approach and presenting actual facts (which I really appreciate, by the way). On your part, you sound like Joseph McCarthy.

    I particularly like how you quote me on something I've actually never written/said. Your "Mr." in front of my username is also a nice touch.

    I have read Animal Farm. It was a good read. If I remember properly (it's been a very long while), its basic claim isn't actually against communism, but mostly against humanity's greed. If you consider that greed is inevitable, you might as well just consider any system to be wrong and faulty.

    You seem to have a prejudice over the fact that I'm young (though I think we could also argue over the fact that you have prejudices toward "communism" itself as well). I have mentioned earlier in this thread that my vision of things evolved over time based on the inputs of my every day life. Well, it is still the case. In fact, on the course of the last 10 days that I've passed alone at my father's lodge, I have read a fairly good book from Platon and did change my vision of a few things (among others, I came to start believing that democracy might not be part of the Solution).

    Anyhow, there is absolutely no point in engaging into any form of discussion with someone that argues like you do. I wish you a happy life of denial and fallacies.

  17. #97
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Let's agree to disagree at this point. Shall we?

  18. #98
    Senior Member TresMon's Avatar
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    Okay, Thread back on track.


























    I have spent several nights at the primitive community and it's cool. I have got to know the full time few and developed a rapport with them. I have permission to begin creating my primitive shelter. I'm moving fast/ASAP to rent out my home. the income from rent, coupled with living in the forest should be plenty of income for the duration of my forest stay.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thanks,
    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

  19. #99
    Senior Member payne's Avatar
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    I contacted them to know if me and 3 other friends could come visit them for 2 months in winter. They told me they didn't have enough space for us during winter.

  20. #100
    Senior Member TresMon's Avatar
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    The few structures are primitive and small. They have had problems in the past on cold winter days of the shelters being packed elbow to elbow with folk huddling around the fire to the point of claustrophobia nearly. That plus... they get LOTS of visitors in the warm seasons. SO with limited shelter space for winter and being worn out with visitors during warm months- they lay low and keep it to just long term members and locals in winter.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thanks,
    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

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