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Thread: I met a neat group that's living it.

  1. #61
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    . . . +1, cs.


  2. #62
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Can't argue with that. I've seen highly paid players that weren't worth the powder and I've seen low paid workers that could work circles around two normal people. It's just who you are.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  3. #63
    Senior Member BENESSE's Avatar
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    Speaking of...
    Have y'all seen "Moneyball'? I am not a rabid baseball fan but the the movie is about so much more.
    It's about thinking outside the box and for that, experience isn't necessary.
    My take away? Keep an open mind.

  4. #64
    Senior Member payne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyt View Post
    My buddy Ivan came from bulgaria. After the fall of communism he had to leave bulgaria and go to germany in order to learn how to work. His words not mine. He said under communism there was no incentive to produce, zippo, nada, none.

    redistribution of wealth is a hoax perpetrated by those that want to take control, they care nothing for the folks they're bull$hitting. I've read accounts of russians lamenting lenin and wanting the czar back. I've read accounts of starvation in north korea that cannibalism was rumoured to be happening.

    I've owned my own little company for 25 years. I've worked through more lunches than I've taken,made a lot of other sacrifices that I won't go into here but if I have more wealth than somebody that didn't make that effort I deserve it.

    lastly a little story from my child hood. When I was 10 years old a neighbour hired my brother and I to pick apples, 50 cents a box. His daughter and her friend were there too. we all were to pick these apples. My brother and I picked apples and hustled like crazy. We picked ten boxes to the girls one box. When time came to get paid the blankety blank decided in order to be "fair" the boxes should be added up and split four ways, BS. We deserved what we earned. I should have told our father but didn't. We were extremely poor as children and only knew one way to change that and that was to work our way up. My brother and I reminiscence about this often. It has formed some very strong opinions in me. If my children came to me and the same had been pulled on them I would be looking the a$$hole up. They would get paid their due one way or the other.

    I don't want to get banned from the forum so I better quit posting about this matter.
    As I've said earlier, the fairest system I can think of isn't communism, but more like socialism. It'd involve piecework, which is pretty much the fairest way to reward people based on their productivity.
    I'm not saying we should steal the money from people and just give it away to anyone, I'm saying people that are unable to reach a minimum of quality of life should indeed receive other people's money until they have reached this minimal quality of life.
    People that could work, but are too lazy to, indeed do not deserve anything, and won't receive anything.

    Thanks for the precision on Kibboutz, Rick.

  5. #65
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    They do today. It's called taxation (my money) supporting those that won't work (minimum quality of life). Happens in Canada, too. That has little to do with a type of government and more to do with bleeding heart #$553$$ that somehow get voted into office. Certainly there are a minority of individuals that deserve a hand up. The rest of the bums want a hand out and I make sure there is a hocker in hand for them. (I just wanted to use hocker in a sentence).
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  6. #66
    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    socialism = polite word for communism.

  7. #67
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    payne, will be fun to check in at about ten years from now, after you actually have to get out in the world and make your own way.....
    Girl friend/wife/ kids/ job........There are some people that seem to avoid these things for quite a while.....or become professional socialist....but most succumb to the "rat race" sooner or later.

    Enjoy your youth and idealism, and may you make a difference, before you get sucked in to the latest "world order".

    I have alway thought that the smartest people in the world are 18 years old, I was....then got progressively stupider.
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  8. #68

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    When I lived in Scotland, I got free med care because I was a "visitor." I really appreciated that! And was SO grateful.
    That's doing it right if you ask me.

    However, In the same place there were strung out teens alcoholic teens and pregnant GIRLS galore. It was referred to me the Scotland has the #1 teen pregnancy rate in the world. Poland Was # 2, but Scotland's numbers were double Poland's. (these facts were given to me by ministry people and may no longer be accurate.) Why the teen problems? I was told Scotland has the strongest social welfare program in the world. There too your an adult at 16 I think it was... and hard liquor is sold in the gas stations. AND- All a teen had to do at 16 is file the paperwork that their folks had kicked them out and in short order they would begin receiving guv'ment checks. Now- Had I got free guv'ment checks at age 16 only by saying I've been kicked out, and hard liquor was for sale to me everywhere, I'd have been an alcoholic too and probably impregnated a few lasses. No wonder they have the teen problem. That's obviously not a good freebie.

    My point is freebies can be REALLY helpful and appreciated. However it's FAR easier and more often done wrong.
    ---------------------------------------------
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    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
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  9. #69
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    Your medical care as a visitor wasn't free. While you may have appreciated it, I wonder if the people that were "required" to pay for it felt the same way about paying for a visitors medical care.
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  10. #70

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    I took it as a respectable noble notion. I think it would be honorable and noble if we offered free basic care to folks that were here on a volunteer Visa. I'd be okay with my tax dollars going to take care of folks that came here to help us out of good will (and not compensated for it.)
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thanks,
    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

  11. #71
    Super Moderator crashdive123's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how many visitors to the United States fall into the category that you describe, but I suspect the numbers are very small. Also, keep in mind that any citizen, legal visitor, illegal alien, etc. can get emergency room care and treatment without the ability to pay. This too is not free, and one of the causes of health care/insurance costs in this country.
    Can't Means Won't

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  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by crashdive123 View Post
    I'm not sure how many visitors to the United States fall into the category that you describe, but I suspect the numbers are very small.
    I agree. It would have to be quite small. I just used it as a "not abused" freebie illustration in my response above.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Thanks,
    Tres
    Website has been updated for 2012!! http://wildernessmeans.com/

    NOTE: I'm a machinist, gunsmith, writer, and instructor of many outdoor topics looking for gainful employment in any geographical cool place to live. Resumes posted on website.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

  13. #73
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    But we do. No facility can deny care based on the patient's inability to pay. Ask the health care pros in California, Nevada, Arizona and Texas what that does to their bottom line or how fair and noble it is. It occurs throughout the country of course but the border states and inner city hospitals seem to bear the brunt of the burden.

    I was once in Canada and required health care services, They ,too, were provide to me "free". I had the ability to pay but was given free care. I'm sure someone living payday to payday and paying taxes would not have been pleased about it.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyt View Post
    socialism = polite word for communism.
    One is an economic system, one is a political system.

    Might be a good idea to be in the right ball park before stepping up to the plate to take a crack at it.

  15. #75
    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warheit View Post
    One is an economic system, one is a political system.

    Might be a good idea to be in the right ball park before stepping up to the plate to take a crack at it.
    that's your opinion, I have mine.

  16. #76
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Actually, both are forms of government. I'm not disagreeing with you Warheit, just stepping up one notch. In essence both of you are correct. Under Marxist ideology socialism would be the first major step toward communism.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  17. #77

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    Ok, so anyone have an insight into the historical long term sustainability of communes?

    They almost always start out great and then slowly deteriorate over time.

    Its like piece work. You bust butt and make good money (try and redistribute that!). Then something happens outside your control and it starts eating into your pocket. Equipment malfunction, or poor communication and your our a couple of weeks pay.

    Piece work is legal if set up right. You have to obey minimum wages and other governmental laws. But, you own the down time and a lot of the mistakes. Because, the boss still holds rank.

    Also, no two men will every truly be equal. At least not for long. Even if they could be exactly equal, one would think he is better than the other and therefore entitled to more.

    "Don't underestimate the other guy's greed!" Frank Lopez "Scarface"

  18. #78
    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    I learned in seventh grade gym class that all men are not created equal LOL.

  19. #79
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Okay, that right there is just freaky. The only man in my 7th grade gym class was the coach. Now I've got cold chills.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  20. #80
    Senior Member randyt's Avatar
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    Rick, you are a turkey LOL. I bet in school you were the class smart acre, the teacher cringed when she saw little ricky coming through the door. <G>

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