You DON'T need a battle rifle.

[southard]

Im not saying theyll just "spray and pray" and I do believe to a point that "happiness is a belt fed weapon" my secondary T/O weapon was a browning .50 cal. My point was everyone is different and that in the heat of it (you name"it") a cool head and a clear eye is what matters you lose those and it dont matter if you have SAW or your willie in your hand. Well aimed shots on the right targets matter most.

[Rick]

I do believe if I had a choice I'd go with a willie. A Little Willie.

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[BENESSE]

I just feel that for people new to the survival conversation, that for most they would be not ever need a battle rifle, and the $1,500.00 would be better invested in good boots, food, rain gear, etc.

This is something I spend a good amount of time researching--"Survival" firearms as an integral part of general preps .
It's the only area in which I feel truly deficient due to the constraints of where I live and the fact I don't hunt.
But common sense tells me that in a SHTF scenario (i.e. all bets are off) more is better. It's not to the exclusion of gear, food, etc, it's in addition.
If this is a conversation about specific firearms, I have nothing to contribute. If it's about the idea of CYA while bugging in or out, I can only say that I prefer the widest coverage doable. It's just my approach in general.

As far as who to trust, my approach is the polar opposite of the above. Err on trusting less, and live with it. Literally. Beyond Winter's "black and white" examples (quite valid, and good starting points) lies a vast, foggy area of people who could, and have, fooled even the toughest SOBs out there. From Ted Bundy, to Bernie Madoff and everyone in between. In desperate times, people will use kids, old people, fake injuries and God knows what all, to get their way. So...the more self sufficient and inconspicuous, the better. IMHO.

[southard]

Im a big believer in evade and observe. check 'em out awhie before approaching. A situation avoided is much better than rounds down range.

[hunter63]

WOW and to think we started with a recommendation of a .22 mag, and ended up with a belt fed .50 cal and armored personnel carriers ( or is that a tank?).....in 24 posts
Bigger is better, .....More power, more power, arh, arh arh!

OK carry on......

[BENESSE]

Well, smarter is better, but that's SO unrealistic.

[Rick]

Seriously, I didn't NEED a battle rifle. I WANTED a battle rifle. Actually, a bunch of them. Or is that a covey? Never mind, carry on.

[Winter]

It's also important to set your firearm needs/wants in the context of what your plans are. I will bug in so I need firearms that can defend a set position. High capacity firearms, IMO, are better.

If I'm out on patrol I'd select a firearm that takes advantage of the terrain. If I was in open brush country, like Tx, it would be a battle rifle. In dense woods like here an AR is optimum IMO. In plains and desert it may well be a bolt gun with high cap handgun for closer work.

Gotta agree with ya rick, i'm fine with anything, but I much prefer top of the line, proven equipment.

Stacking the odds in your favor is never a bad thing.

In B's situation. I don't know. What kinda firearms can you have in NYC?

[southard]

Its only unrealistic in a case by case basis. No one said anything about absolutes. Even in the wilds of Alaska there is a chance albeit microscopic of encountering into someone.

[southard]

Good point Winter. Coupled with what you said a large hunk of us will be in a group so an assortment of firearms can be utilized.

[Rick]

I think you and Winter are pretty close to the mark, Southard. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. It depends on the scenario. I'm also a bug in guy and won't be leaving unless I have no other choice. That said, if something really bad happened my first concern is defending the castle. That's a onsy, twosy, probably. Not a whole army. One or two folks come looking for a hand out and don't like the response and something escalates. But I don't see 20-30 blazing away at me. Not here, anyway. Later, when things settle down, you need something for "foraging". That means short and maneuverable. There will plenty of stocks in abandoned homes so you want to think urban encounters.

If I have to leave for whatever reason then I need to be able to reach out further since this is cornfield country and there aren't large expanses of woods until you get into the southern or western parts of the state.

It really depends on where you are and what your intentions are. You need to adapt all your preps, including choice of weapons, to your requirements.

[CoryD]

I think the thread title should be you dont NEED a battle rifle, not that you DONT need one. A Mosin Nagant( think 91/30) was once a MBR, But thats a commonly recommmended rifle for "survival defense". A 22lr will work in a pinch. Optimal? heck no, but if thats what ya got, use it. all depends on your situation and how good you are at staying out of situations. As far as my 2 cents, if a guy wants an AR15 for a survival weapon, so be it. Best case senario, there may be extra ammo/parts for one of my/your ARs strewn about worst case I'd/you'd/we'd be dead and wont need a rifle anymore anyhow.

[Sourdough]

I have learned something in this thread, that I did not expect. For me I see starvation as the greatest risk to my survival, so I think in terms of of two or three bricks of .22 Magnum for harvesting food.

For me I would consider the probability of being bear nibbled a thousand times higher than that of being hurt by a human.

Another point is that I see a survival event as lasting three months to ten years, and I get the impression that most people expect the time frame to be very short, and then a return to normal.

[2dumb2kwit]

OK....I'll 'splain this for you guys. (That includes "B")
A gun is a tool.
For each job, there is a tool that is best for it.
The more tools I have, the more jobs I am prepared for.

Hope this helps. LOL

[Rick]

most people expect the time frame to be very short, and then a return to normal.

Count me in that group. If the civil war didn't destroy us or the Great Depression or the Dust Bowl years or the Civil Rights movement then there's not much that can truly shake the foundation of this county. We lose a bit of veneer and maybe some sheet rock here and there but the foundation remains strong.

You discount the two things that will always buoy us. Greed and humanity. If you are a "have" then if something happens you will do whatever it takes to get back to "have". If you are a "have not" then you will do whatever you can to help those around you. Sometimes, we encounter that rare individual that is a "have" and still has humanity in their heart.

Large banks, large corporations and the federal government are true "haves" and they will work you silly to get them back to where they need to be.

[Sourdough]

Good post Rick.

[Rick]

I don't mean to point the finger (index finger) at the rich or corporations. Anything that moves me outside my comfort zone makes me want to work to put myself back there. I consider that greed as well. We all want to be happy by our own definition and we do whatever it takes to get there.

[BENESSE]

OK....I'll 'splain this for you guys. (That includes "B")
A gun is a tool.
For each job, there is a tool that is best for it.
The more tools I have, the more jobs I am prepared for.

Hope this helps. LOL

Thanks 2D. For once we agree.

...common sense tells me that in a SHTF scenario (i.e. all bets are off) more is better. It's not to the exclusion of gear, food, etc, it's in addition.
If it's about the idea of CYA while bugging in or out, I can only say that I prefer the widest coverage doable.

I see guns as tools as well and can pretty much guess what I'd need where I am if I had a choice.
Very different from SD, although I'd never turn my nose up at SD's "tool box". Or any of y'all's, for that matter.

[southard]

When it comes down to it I wouldn't want a .22 in the *** anymore than a .308. The .22 has that ricochet factor where larger is just as likely to pass thru. A determined able individual can be a force of nature.

[Rick]

I believe that's why the Russians went with the 5.45 X 39 in the AK74. That round tends to tumble after it strikes a person creating a worse wound.