You DON'T need a battle rifle.

[Sourdough]

You for sure do not need a designated battle rifle for home protection. And there is one compelling reason you do not need a battle rifle for so called "Bug'Out" survival. In your home it is clear who is the friendlies and who is not friendly, namely if they are attacking your home they are not friendly.......that was easy.

Now once you leave your home, you don't know who is friendly or who is enemy. And even if you made it to a remote area with few humans, you would really only have two choices....... (a.) Kill every human you encounter, or (b.) trust every human you encounter.

The last tool I would want to lug around is a designated "Battle Rifle". They are heavy, the ammo is heavy, the only real plus is that most are easy to field strip. For me, I would choose to trust all human encounters, and go heavy on the .22 Magnum for hunting, even here in heavy bear country.

[glockcop]

Opinions vary. Sounds like you have your plan all worked out. I on the other hand I will keep an AR close because the ammo is NOT heavy and field care is a snap.

[2dumb2kwit]

Opinions vary. Sounds like you have your plan all worked out. I on the other hand I will keep an AR close because the ammo is NOT heavy and field care is a snap.

Well, yeah. Were you live, the chances of needing to fend off a hord of zombies is pretty high. LOL

[Sourdough]

The real question is how do you know friend from foe.......? In war one side wears one color, the otherside wears a different color. Even the helmet is shaped differently. In a bug'out enviroment would you welcome a uniformed LEO into camp, while assuming he could be trusted and very helpful to your survival. What if someone shot the real LEO, and a bad'guy was wearing his uniform.......?

[kyratshooter]

I don't trust human encounters now!!!! I do not have a CCW due to the heavy bear population in my area.

The only reason you do now is due to being snowed in and not having any human encounters.

SHTF is a completely different ball game in the lower 48 SD. We have more criminals in our county jail than AK does in their whole state. In fact, we have more people within 50 miles of my house than AK does in the entire state.

As far as your last post goes, a uniform in a SHTF situation means nothing but more trouble. That guy should be home taking care of his own, or he is up to no good.

THIS IS A PHILOSOPHY THREAD, NOT A WEAPONS THREAD.

[Sourdough]

I don't trust human encounters now!!!! I do not have a CCW due to the heavy bear population in my area.

The only reason you do now is due to being snowed in and not having any human encounters.

SHTF is a completely different ball game in the lower 48 SD. We have more criminals in our county jail than AK does in their whole state. In fact, we have more people within 50 miles of my house than AK does in the entire state.

As far as your last post goes, a uniform in a SHTF situation means nothing but more trouble. That guy should be home taking care of his own, or he is up to no good.

THIS IS A PHILOSOPHY THREAD, NOT A WEAPONS THREAD.

Well, maybe a super moderator can move it. I still want to know how you will determine friend from foe......... my point is not sell them if you own them, and is directed toward people starting to procure firearms for survival. It seems that at the very top of most survival thinking is that you need a battle rifle. My point is that most people will need a cart or wheelbarrow more than a battle rifle.

Even if I lived in the lower 48, I would most likely take a high quality bolt action .22 Magnum and three bricks of ammo over one AR-15.

[Highhawk1948]

I like and use that .22 magnum. My faviorite.

[Rick]

What does bears have to do with CCW?

[Winter]

I consider an AR to be a 22 magnum......

[Sourdough]

What does bears have to do with CCW?

I was wondering that myself........

[hunter63]

I like the .22 mag as well,..... seems to be the jist of all this........and depending what configuration it's in, most don't look like a EBR "Evil black rifle".

Good?...Bad?... don't know, but I'm thinking a couple EBR's are plenty, unless of course you just happen to like EBR's.....I would prefer a long shooter to keep the threat ..."Over there" ...and a 12 ga for ."Over Here"....9 mm, big magazine , for covering your butte as you haul a$$ to ....out of here.

Can't see myself opening up on much of anybody, unless it is absolutely necessary.....Bad time to say ...oops?

[Sourdough]

I consider an AR to be a 22 magnum......

That brought a chuckle to me........I have always wished they would create a .25 Magnum Rimfire. With bullets in the 60 gr. to 85 gr. area. But it is not likely.

[Sourdough]

I like the AR-15 platform, and I had hoped they would be a great investment, but they have not appreciated at the rete that I expected. I carry one in the winter on the chance of harvesting some wolves.

[LowKey]

I shot a borrowed AR in 5.56 for the first time a few weeks ago. A custom build. Won a frozen turkey in the process (woulda had two but the army corporal next to me won the second set up).
I've never really ever wanted an AR but that was one sweet, very accurate unit. And wicked fun to shoot.

I've come to consider them the kids' gun though. Seems all the kids have em, usually in .22, out there doing their Rambo thing. The ones that consider a black rifle and a backpack their bugout equipment...I gotta say I wouldn't trust them too far, considering the caliber of conversation on some of their forums. And certainly not a pack of them.

[kyratshooter]

What does bears have to do with CCW?

CCW is normally obtained due to the need for self protection because one is not able to trust everyone they meet in this day and age.

SHTF who will you trust? Probably the same percentage our troops can trust in Afganistan or Iraq or the number of civilians we could trust in Viet Namn.

I am out of this essay in naivety.

[Sourdough]

CCW is normally obtained due to the need for self protection because one is not able to trust everyone they meet in this day and age.

SHTF who will you trust? Probably the same percentage our troops can trust in Afganistan or Iraq or the number of civilians we could trust in Viet Namn.

I am out of this essay in naivety.

You make broad blanket statements, what does battle field enviroment have to do with bug out survival...? WHAT.....??? Let me ask you how many animals have you shot in the last ten years, most likely more animals than humans I would guess.

I just feel that for people new to the survival conversation, that for most they would be not ever need a battle rifle, and the $1,500.00 would be better invested in good boots, food, rain gear, etc.

[southard]

By no ccw having to with bears I am assuming he means the trucker slang for LEO. Kyratshooter is evidently in a bad mood and touchy. This is a philosophical discussion the philosophy of load out. As far as naivety goes there is none in discussing practicalness. He is being naive in thinking his pov is the only right one. Precision of aim is much better than than high rate of fire. Vietnam logistical stats are prime example less rounds fired by sniper but higher kill rate that whole infantry units. Remember you have to carry your rifle. Even if you are only in semi-auto you will still burn through ammo fast (ie. any LEO fire incident) 6 months ago in pima county AZ, 12 swat members shot something like 77 rounds in less than 2min while hitting an armed man only 22times at the far end of a narrow hall.

[SARKY]

Battle rifle.... .308 caliber(Nato 7.62x51) Why you need one! Try stopping a truck or car with a 5.56/223 AR..... aint going to happen unless you get a lucky shot. I would much rather have them coming at me on foot rather than in a vehicle. Also the vehicle gives them cover. With the .308, I can punch thru most parts of the vehicle. A .50 BMG would be better as would a MK-19 belt fed 40mm grenade launcher or perhaps the XM-25.

[Winter]

I like military rifles for SHTF scenarios, but not because of the fire rate. I like the lack of reloading.

If, and a big "if", you end up in a battle and have to shoot people, you need to maintain an eye on them. Fumbling for .30-.30 rounds in my pocket does not facilitate that.

A rifleman does not miraculously become a "spray and pray"er just because he has alot of bullets in the magazine. Thinking it does is the same mindset that makes politicians ban them just because of the bullet count.

SD, the "(a.) Kill every human you encounter, or (b.) trust every human you encounter." adage is unsound at best. If you see someone, take the time to judge them. I could give 100 examples but I'll only give two.

If they have human ear necklaces, shoot them.

If they have children, wait till you know more.

[Rick]

Aaargh. I wasn't thinking about bears = LEO because I know he has black bears in the area so I was thinking animal kingdom. Someone else made a point that weapons would be carried open around animal bears for quick access and being from Indiana there is no difference here whether you carry concealed or open. I tend to forget that not everyone is that way. I don't think his state allows open carry.

Winter - I think you make a very real and valid point. We size up everyone we encounter in every day situations so we would be more attuned to that if things were bad for whatever reason. Even if you guys were battling an earthquake that had caused moderate damage you'd probably looking at folks a bit closer just in case they were looters, for example. I think most of us a pretty attuned to the "hair on the back of our neck" or "red flags" or whatever term you choose. We wouldn't have hung around the planet this long if we didn't have some ability in that area.