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Thread: Request from the Cherokee of GA, Marshall's Division

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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    Default Request from the Cherokee of GA, Marshall's Division

    Met with the Chief on Friday evening.

    What I do is something of a lost art, and even the actual Native American descendants have forgotten it.

    I've been asked to teach several of their members how to tan hides the way it was done 500 years ago; the way I do it. For expedience sake, I do use metal tools, but I have bone tools ready to go also.

    I was asked many wrong questions about how I do things. "do you frame them to scrape?" "No, I do it the way it was predominantly done right here where we are standing. I wet-scrape over a 'beam'." "How do you get it so soft?" "It's simply a result of the process of brains and smoke, but I prefer to hand-stretch over my lap". "Isn't buckskin supposed to be white?" "Well, right here where we are standing, it's too hot in summer to bother with more than a loincloth, and in winter we can all agree that darker colors are warmer from absorbing sunlight, so I have no real desire to produce anything less than functional."

    Please don't get me wrong.. I'm not trying to talk down about these people, but I would think that any group of people that hold so tightly to their roots would have better preserved their ancient way of life.

    Art knappers can produce very beautiful points, as thin as a vinyl LP and as sharp as a razor, BUT they are NOTHING like what I find in the fields around HERE that were made 1000 years ago. The found pieces are fat, and sturdy and very often reusable, or at least re-workable into smaller, sharper tools. Nowadays, knappers produce points and heads for no reason other than to sell. I really have to stress to these people that this monetary trade system is something "new" and that the time frame I am focused on did not use "currency" but rather traded arrowheads, meat, salt, skins, rocks, beads, shells, maize, seeds... need I go on?
    Disease and a belief system shattered by the arrival of white man caused the collapse of these great civilizations.. not corrupt government officials, not economic collapse, not inflation...

    I can teach these people how to do the things they want to learn to do. That's not a problem. The problem is going to come when I try to educate them on things they no longer hold in their belief system. I did ask (tho I probably shouldn't have) if they were converted. These people are now modernized Christians (not that it's a bad thing) who have diverged from their belief in "The Creator", Immissee, and no longer hold [much] regard for any of the ancient "Spirits" like those of the waters, the reptiles, the beasts of the air and fields and forests. They hunt and trap and fish, sure, but now they are "trophy hunters" who value the horns more than the meat, which truly angers me.

    let me say that my grandmother's mother was full-blooded Cherokee named Viney Viola Glass who married an Irishman carpenter. Three generations removed, I'm about as much Native American as this keyboard that says "Made in China" and have never claimed to be anything more than that. I'm as white as snow where the sun-don't-shine. Yet I hold their ancient belief system close to my heart. I try not to offend any of the "spirits" as I do believe in "karma" or whatever you want to call it. I had an opportunity just yesterday to take a doe and her fawn, but would not because of what I believe in. Would it cause me to have a bad hunting year if I took them? probably not, but it would cause that ache in my heart that I do not want. (a little off topic but I'm getting there...)

    This all came about by beekeeping. A few weeks ago I was helping another local apiarist treat for mites when one of his friends came over to watch and learn. Great! We all want healthy bees! This gentleman took me to his 50 acre farm where his hives were, and proposed an idea to me: To build an authentic Native American village, have it habitable, and several times a year hold celebrations there. They want lodges and teepees (that were not used by the people who lived here 500 years ago..). He put me in contact with Chief Lodge, who later told me that the man was the mayor of my town! (haha! can you believe I didn't know who my mayor is??)

    So how do I tell these people exactly what I think? It's easy enough for me to meet up with the mayor (I have his number) and explain these things to him (who is as white as myself) and get him to understand the extent of what he's wanting to do, but how on earth am I going to tell these Cherokee people that they either have bad information, or have failed to preserve a way of life that dominated this continent for millennia?

    Just a little news and some random thoughts from your friendly neighborhood cave-man.
    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. Helen Keller

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    The newbie! Willie's Avatar
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    Good read and good point!

    Willie
    Yor are only a failure when you stop getting back up!
    I'm not a hoarder........ "I'M A COLLECTOR"

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Why do you want to tell them what you think? Take baby steps. Help them to understand the process then you can work on beliefs. You have a truly gifted knowledge of not only how to do things but why those things work the way they do. That's what you need to focus on. If I came in to show you how to be a better bee keeper you'd be excited. But if I began telling you why you should be a Socialist and why your bees should be socialist bees you'd be turned off pretty quickly. That's not what you showed up for. You're dealing with a belief structure that has been built over a couple of hundred years. You aren't going to change that overnight and you might drive them away in the process. Stay focused.
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    Senior Member gryffynklm's Avatar
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    I'd give points to Rick but it won't let me. I totally agree.
    Karl

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    Lone Wolf COWBOYSURVIVAL's Avatar
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    It may help you to reflect on what it would have taken to preserve their way of life. On the internet I can readily find where my Grandfathers Father fled with his family into the woods in AL to avoid the census bureau. I also have a Father that it took me 20 yrs. to convince that he was not as white as he thought he was. He was convinced otherwise due to the rascist tensions in MS where he was raised. Perhaps the effort to just survive outweighed the need to pass on the culture.
    Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...

    "Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    Much is learned by just listening.
    Good luck.
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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Good stuff, Hunter. Aristotle once said that man has two ears and one tongue that he might listen twice as much as he speaks. Wise words often lost on me.
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    Senior Member Winter's Avatar
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    Interesting read YCC.

    My thought would be to not tell them, but show them.

    Build an authentic camp with authentic tools.

    "Here's where your wrong." is much harsher then " Here's how it was."
    I had a compass, but without a map, it's just a cool toy to show you where oceans and ice are.

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    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    Just as the skills they lost were originally learned over thousands of years and refined over that period, you will have to take on that same journey. If you try and force it without explanation you will be met with resistance due to their preconceived ideas.
    I know what hunts you.

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    On a different level...maybe the reason for not having a written document or documented pictures was...?

    Was it Sitting Bull that changed his name to worm?

    We can only strive to be better and that is not enough.

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    I've been told that my great great grandmother was from the Blackfoot tribe, though thats about all I know. But I agree with you. I know that I wish I knew some of the things you know and more of what was lost, but i feel that way for my other line of ancestry too (traced back to Ikaria in greece so far to sometime in the late 1800's). It's sad to see people of those cultures lose what was so special about them.

    I would look for someone who is genuinely interested in preserving this knowledge and take him or her under your wing. As for the others, teach what they will accept and as you do educate them. It won't be easy.

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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    All very good and very valid points. I will focus on demonstration and educating How and Why, and those that wish to learn more about the Old Ways will seek my knowledge, however limited, and perhaps do their own digging and research.

    Thanks for the vote of confidence and direction. I will do my best, as always.
    Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing. Helen Keller

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    I don't know what to say to this post YCC. I will refrain!

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    Well, I can say this with full confidence; if I'm ever down your way, I will definitely stop by to see you in action. I'm very impressed with the things you know.

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    naturalist primitive your_comforting_company's Avatar
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    After re-reading the OP I feel I should clarify that it's those things listed that I want to AVOID. I feel that it will come up in the conversations, some of the conflicting ideas between what knowledge has been retained, vs what's been lost. The OP kind-of sounds like I think I'm a know-it-all and that is not the case. It was a clumsy attempt at expressing my ignorance to the circumstances and a request of how better to word such things that need to be expressed to these folks.

    Just like Rick said above, I wouldn't want anyone coming to my house telling me I should be a socialist because my ancestors were socialists... We are all victims of time and circumstance and please, PLEASE understand folks, that this is a request for a better approach, than my clumsy, redneck way of explaining things that will certainly be parts of the conversation. I'm not getting a big head, or becoming egomaniacal like "I know more than you".. NEVER!! I need to use kid-gloves for this, and don't want to bring any negativity to any of the conversations.
    With better understanding of how this knowledge was lost, and why they have strayed so far from that path, I feel like I can tiptoe around the unexplainable and shameful parts, and simply exchange knowledge as any of us would at a rondy or other event. This is a great opportunity for me to help a group of people recapture some of their lost knowledge and perhaps gain some in return.

    I'm still not sure I'm saying this the way I meant to, to start with.. Maybe you get the idea.
    I'm not that finger-shaking, evangelical, know-it-all that the OP sounds like.
    I am that humble student who wants to learn and share knowledge WITHOUT putting in my 2¢.

    A couple guys have contacted me with some great information and resources to study, so that I might be a better teacher. You guys know who you are and I thank you very much.

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I didn't take it that way at all. I read it as though you had a deep concern for the spiritual side of the culture as well and wanted to help them understand it. I can't speak for others but my only concern was the spiritual side has to grow and can't be taught with the ease and acceptance of knapping or tanning. That's a bit like making fire with a firebow. It takes a small spark that must be gently coaxed and cultivated. You are one of the last folks I would ever imagine being or coming across as a know-it-all.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

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    Senior Member gryffynklm's Avatar
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    You will do fine. there are some good suggestions. Your last post #15 shows that you are approaching this great opportunity from the right attitude. You will learn as much if not more from them as you offer your knowledge to them.
    Karl

    The quality of a person's life is in direct proportion the the effort he puts into whatever field of endeavor he chooses. Vincent T Lombardi

    A wise man profits from the wisdom of others.

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    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I agree, if your thinking about it, just show you care.....and have the correct prospective.
    Anyone that puts as much time and work in to stuff like you do, and respect for the spiritual side, will be fine.
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    Lone Wolf COWBOYSURVIVAL's Avatar
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    Watched a special on the Cherokee of Cherokee NC and Snow Creek NC last night. It reminded me of this thread. One thing to also be aware of in your endeavor is that as the Cherokee that avoided the Trail of Tears did so by "heading for the hills" though eventually allowed to coexist they were forced to schools to learn the white way or "become civilized". In many cases it was not permissable to even teach there chidren their native language.
    Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...

    "Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS

    "How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson

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    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    YCC - While there are literally hundreds of tribes in the U.S. I think I'm correct in saying there are no federally recognized tribes in the lower Midwest and Central South states, Georgia included. There are certainly descendants of various tribes and even some lose confederations of certain tribes but none, that I am aware of, that are federally recognized. I only mention it because you may run into some point of contention with descendants that you work with. Understandably so, I would think. Tribes that would have been indigenous to Georgia such as the Cherokee, Creek, Apolachee, Gualel, Hitchitti and others as well as displaced tribes like the Shawnee and Yuchi are no longer recognized in Georgia or North through the Mississippi and Ohio valleys. All of them having been forced into Oklahoma and points west even though the Supreme Court ruled against the move. The Supreme Court granted them the "right to occupancy" in an 1823 ruling. President Jackson still moved them despite the ruling.

    You might also be interested to know that the Cherokee of Georgia actually filed suite against the state of Georgia based on a Georgia law that forbade white settlers from living on Cherokee lands. The law was originally designed to remove missionaries that were aiding the Cherokee but the Cherokee successfully argued the law gave them the right to self government and they won!!! However, the state of Georgia refused to follow the Supreme Court ruling and President Jackson refused to enforce the law. And we think our government is corrupt today. The rest is pretty much history but the Cherokee were granted the right to self government in 1831.

    We have many nations locally, none recognized but they exist none-the-less.
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