Restaurants, just saying

[SemperFi]

I hate eating out , I dont trust the "help" I dont care if its a 5 star or 1 star , I hate the fact that the waiters/wiatresses dont have gloves on when they bring the food , my wife would rather eat out everyday , I cant stand it, its gotten worse in the last few years, I look around the place and notice how nasty the floors are , the walls, the ceilings and look behind the counter (if its fast food joint) , the nice sit down joints, just as nasty , and all you can eat buffets , terrible , the guy that just picked up the chicken leg in front of you , "did he wash his hands before he did that?"


I know what your thinking what does this have to do with survival , everything , GERMS, VIRUSES , they live in restaurants ! This will be where it all starts (and ends) , not the water supply like most people think , a place like McDonalds will cause the largest death toll because thousands eat there everyday and if something is infected at one then there are others infected as well!

[kyratshooter]

SF you are definately not going to the high end joints!

As far as the "Help" goes, I live in an area where fast food is viewed as a career choice. It is about all that is left. Fortunately there is plenty of turnover and after a few weeks at the fry machine many reconsider and enter the local university.

It got to the point at one time that I could not eat at any establishment in town due to having at least one student working in every eatery in town. Back then I was working with hard core delinquents.

BUT

If you are this squeemish now how are you going to handle what has to be done during a crisis.

eating racoons, possoms, buzzards and dog

How about finishing off injured or wounded long ago game?

How about wondering if the campfire cooked fare was prepared under sterile conditions?

MY, my, Marines have changed sine I was working with them!

[Rick]

You actually have it backwards. Restaurant borne illness takes a far backseat to grocery store related illness. You just don't see the packing plants or you wouldn't eat food at all. I worked for a while in a Coca Cola plant and it was years before I could drink the stuff again.

Literally millions of pounds of ground beef have been recalled as have tons of fresh veggies all because they were tainted from everything from e.Coli to listeria.

Most states, probably all states, have a health department responsible for restaurant inspections. Locally, those inspections are listed on the web so you can review the deficiencies. That not only allows you to pick and choose which restaurants you want to patronize but offers a further incentive for the restaurants to adhere to safety guidelines.

I've often found that color schemes used by some chains, Chick-fil-A for one, gives the appearance that the inside of the place is just dirty. I can't imagine why the architects decided on those colors but I can't eat in one because they all look dirty to me. I know it's just the color scheme but I can't do it.

I'm not saying you won't get ill eating in a restaurant only that your odds of food borne illness are much higher from grocery store bought food than from a restaurant.

As for trusting the help, I can tell you I've seen guys pull a bottle off the line on the way to the capper and take a drink, put the bottle back on the line and away it went. If a new bottle looks low to me it doesn't come home with me. On the up side, that stuff will probably kill all life forms given enough time.

[kyratshooter]

Hey Rick, they have speeded up the line in this modern age. They are capping about 15 bottles a second and trying to grab one off the line would cost you an arm.

[Rick]

That's probably true. Back then all they bottled were bottles and 5 gallon pre-mix. I ran the pre-mix washer for a while. Kinda hard to sneak a drink out of those rascals.

One of the first items that went ashore in Africa during WWII were four complete Coca Cola bottling plants. Now you know.

[kyratshooter]

I have often wondered how many truck loads of Camels and Lucky Strikes went ashore with each invasion force. Knowing most GIs you could lose the C-rat truck as long as you kept the smokes supplied.

I just put on a pot of chili.

Ground beef with possible e-coli, peppers some Mexican peed on and onions that actually grew in the dirt. Crushed, diced tomatoes from God ony knows where and packed by some guy that has never washed his hands in his life!

I did find that 4 small cans of tomato paste had gone bad on the shelf. Acid had eaten right through the side of the can. What that might have done to me, even in my ultra-sterile kitchen, might have been a real interesting science experiment!

[SemperFi]

"grew in the dirt "? Dont you know Anthrax is hidden in dirt!

[Wise Old Owl]

Rick - I work on the internet to look for troubled restaurants - unfortunately some inspectors are govt workers - to expect them to know how to do their jobs is asking a lot. Last week one went into a basement inside a major cafeteria and found one ground beetle and called it a cockroach - we had a employee nearby and dispatched him to look at the beetle in the basement and corrected the idiot. She filled out the report and wrote Cigarette beetle.

You can't fix stupid.

[Wise Old Owl]

OK lets talk about a way out of this... people beg to be taken to a restaurant because they HATE cooking....They want to be seen and or want to be social... the days of inviting folks over appear to be dead.. so I got interested in BBQ and watch Bobby Flay would turn on Paula Dean when the wife walked in... after a while a easy dish would pop and we would work "together" to make it at home.

Or

get on line dig deep and find out who your county heath department - dig into their website with restaurant inspections. Learn how to read them. IF that fails you have to go to the state website... Still stuck call them - not getting anywhere? call a reporter at the local paper for help... I am good at this.

[hunter63]

Worked, on a lot of restaurant equipment, coolers, freezers, ovens, plumbing.....I find it hard to eat in any of them I worked in.
That being said, I guess I have chosen to not worry about it too much....just keep you self lubed up with " liquid" disinfectant, just in case...single malt scotch or a good burbon works well.

[Rick]

I saw myself in the mirror once and won't go near them either. It's a dangerous world out there.

[Phaedrus]

Statistically you have a lot bigger chance of getting sick from a home cooked meal than one eaten in a restaurant. The health inspector doesn't visit your home kitchen, nor insure your food is rotated. They don't temp your fridge or your dishwasher to make sure the temps are safe. How many home cooks wear gloves when plating greens? Cross contamination is massive at home, and that's the cause of about 85% of food related illness. Do you have a HACCP system at home? Different colors of cutting boards to insure meats and veggies aren't cut on the same surface? When you make a big batch of soup at home, do you cool it rapidly thru the danger zone in a blast chiller or with an ice paddle, or do you leave it on the counter? Does your butter sit out all day?

No doubt there are dirty restaurants but for every one there are probably 1,000 filthy unsafe home kitchens that couldn't pass the health inspection that a restaurant does several times per year. How do you think your kitchen would score?

[Beans]

MY, my, Marines have changed sine I was working with them!

I hope not.

I can remember passing a plastic "C" rat spoon, (maybe rinsing it off with water out of a canteen), around because someone didn't have one. Just wiping it off and using it. Drinking out of the same canteen cup after/with everyone else, sharing the "C" rat coffee. Sending someone for water and everyone passing a canteen up and when they got back you received a canteen. No one worried about whose it was. Those that smoked sometimes shared a puff or two. Sharing a half eaten can of peaches. Dunking your mess kits in a garbage can of hot water to wash it off after 50-75 Marines in front of you did the same thing in the same hot water. I can remember being so dirty that I don't think Germs could have live on me. Being so tired that your butt was wiping out your footprints, so all you wanted to do is eat something and sleep. Washing you hands would maybe something you could do it you had the water. Soap in the field. Forgetaboutit.

The thing I find funny is that the grocery store have a sanitizer at the entrance so that you can wipe the handle of the cart off before using it. Then going into the produce/fruit section and watching those same people that wouldn't touch a cart before sanitizing it handle the fruit and veggies after everyone else has picked it up and handled it.
They then go over to the freebies and eat the chese, crackers Etc without washing their hands before stuffing those freebies in their mouth.
Samething at Wal mart. Wipe the cart handle. go through pick up clothes, groceries CD's health and comfort items. pay for them and then stand in line at Mickey "D" and eat a big mac. Did they wash their hand NOPE, but they did wipe the cart handle before pushing the cart into the store.

I agree we should do what we can to prevent the spread of germs/virus but you can only do so much before it becomes an obsession. I do admit that when i use the restroom I use a clean paper towel to open the door when I leave as I have seen too many men handle themselves and leave without washing their hands. When no clean paper towl is avaiable I use my shirt tail.

[crashdive123]

Two things....

1. That a you have "seen too many men handle themselves and leave without washing their hands" is frightening in and of itself.
2. I guess the Navy was different than the Marines. We learned how to not pee on our hands.

The preceding comments were all in fun with some good ole inter-service rivalry.

[Rick]

Beans - I can't disagree with anything you said. But there is a large difference between passing germs by hand and using tainted food you purchased or receiving tainted food at a restaurant.

Phaedrus - That was actually a great and to the point post. Nice.

Some may find it interesting that "flu" symptoms are often symptoms of undiagnosed food related illness. If you are experiencing vomiting and/or diarhea, fever, chills but NO sneezing, coughing or other respiratory problems then suspect food illness. Stomach flu generally lasts 24-36 hours. If your illness is lasting longer or you are getting worse then suspect food related illness.

[Mischief]

Semperfi the sky is not falling.

[Rick]

Try telling that to the folks that got 20+ inches of snow!!!!!!

[Mischief]

OK

The white stuff that is falling is only frozen H2O,it is not the sky.

[Wise Old Owl]

Being in the pest control business here's a little inside take on what is going on with resturants - Most resturants do not have insect issues, or food borne pathogens. In this area -Most Chinese or Japan fusion are cleaner than pizza places. 5 star or Zagat means crap about how sick you are going to get. School Cafeterias are the worst, Pizza delivery, Diners, Africa / Hallah and mini food courts at the malls are where you are going to run into the worst places to get sick.

Roaches are not much of a factor here in PA like other states. Mice are... Mice are attacted to flour and bread machines. Toasters too. Mice have no control over their bladders. They urinate on surfaces as they scurry across objects. I have walked into pizza places that were infested with mice and when we get the call the problem has been going on for months because they only get inspected once or twice a year. One only has to grab a large black light and switch off the lights and mice urine glows!

The real unfortunate thing is sole proprietors will continue to operate and sell pizza even when it should be shut down. Owners won't pay a fair wage to clean it up. They expect us to succeed for their filthy habits and if they just did a lot more cleaning the problem will die down. Right now due to the colder weather - this is the height of the mouse phone calls.


There is a lot to be said about buying premade pizza at the grocery, and add your own toppings.

Mice transmit diseases, most notably:

* Salmonellosis - bacterial food poisoning, infection with or disease caused by bacteria of the genus Salmonella typically marked by gastroenteritis but often complicated by septicemia, meningitis, endocarditis, and various focal lesions (as in the kidneys) when food is contaminated with infected rodent feces.

* Other diseases include: Lymphocytic - of or relating to lymphocytes; "lymphocytic leukemia",

* Rickettsialpox - a disease characterized by fever, chills, headache, backache, and a spotty rash, caused by a bacterium of the genus Rickettsia transmitted to humans by the bite of a mite of the genus Allodermanyssus living on rodents such as the house mouse.

* Leptospirosis - Any of a group of infectious diseases that are caused by spirochetes of the genus Leptospira, are characterized by jaundice and fever, and are transmitted to humans by contact with the urine of infected animals.

* Choriomeningitis - Cerebral meningitis in which there is marked cellular infiltration of the meninges, often with a lymphocytic infiltration of the choroid plexuses.

* Ratbite fever - either of two febrile human diseases usually transmitted by the bite of a rat: a : a septicemia marked by irregular relapsing fever, rashes, muscular pain and arthritis, and great weakness and caused by a bacterium of the genus Streptobacillus b : a disease that is marked by sharp elevation of temperature, swelling of lymph glands, eruption, recurrent inflammation of the bite wound, and muscular pains in the part where the bite wound occurred and that is caused by a bacterium of the genus Spirillum called also sodoku.

* Tularemia - An infectious disease caused by the bacterium Francisella tularensis that chiefly affects rodents but can also be transmitted to humans through the bite of various insects or contact with infected animals. In humans, the disease is characterized by intermittent fever and swelling of the lymph nodes.

* Lyme disease - an acute inflammatory disease that is usually characterized initially by the skin lesion erythema migrans and by fatigue, fever, and chills and if left untreated may later manifest itself in cardiac and neurological disorders, joint pain, and arthritis and that is caused by a spirochete of the genus Borrelia transmitted by the bite of a tick especially of the genus Ixodes, I. dammini in the eastern and midwestern U.S., I. pacificus especially in some parts of the Pacific coastal states of the U.S., and I. ricinus in Europe called also Lyme, Lyme borreliosis

* Dermatitis - inflammation of the skin; skin becomes itchy and may develop blisters and is caused by the bites of mites from the mice.

* Tapeworm - Any of various ribbonlike, often very long flatworms of the class Cestoda, that lack an alimentary canal and are parasitic in the intestines of vertebrates, including humans.

* Favus - a contagious skin disease of humans and many domestic animals and fowls that is caused by a fungus called honeycomb ringworm.

* Black Plague - the epidemic form of bubonic plague.

* Hantavirus - pulmonary syndrome, a type of virus carried by rodents causing severe respiratory infections in humans, and in some cases, hemorrhaging, kidney disease, and death. Hantavirus is another danger becoming more common. Recently there have been numerous outbreaks of Hantavirus in the United States carried and spread by the house mouse. The virus is contracted by humans through inhalation of dust in contaminated rodent areas, usually where droppings and contaminated food tend to collect. If you have or have had a mouse infestation, always wear a respirator when cleaning the area. Symptoms of Hantavirus are similar to the flu including fever of 101 +, chills, body ache, and troubled breathing. It can be fatal, so if suspected see your doctor IMMEDIATELY.

[SemperFi]

Look I eat out all the time , what Im saying is this , look at the state health board ,in Oklahoma they list restaurants in every town for violations , most have to do with roaches and rodents , after viewing these ,which are monthly reports , even the high joints have these problems , they have refrigeration problems , trust me its not good , and in Mexico I guess they dont care about cleanliness anyway , so while here in America why practice something that you dont do at home ,Im not picking on Mixeicans here , its all over the place , sit down in a KFC and enjoy your chicken , dont feel bad when you look up at the cieling and theres roaches crawling around in the lights ,just keep eating , dont feel anything when walk up to Applebees and notice they have rat traps anlong the side of the building! Just go in there and enjoy the chicken strips!

Lol at the comments about the Corps , Ive eatin in and at many places that most people wouldnt take a dump in!