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Thread: CCI shotshell test report from Rifle & Revolver.

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    Smile CCI shotshell test report from Rifle & Revolver.

    Well this is at least the second time I have done this test in the last 50 years. (This is excerpted from an e-mail I sent a friend).

    It was/is awesome sunny today (72* above) calm wind, perfect for some testing.

    OK, 5 1/2" Barrel, cartridge .45 Long Colt "CCI" shot shell test. At a measured from the muzzle to target 7' (That is seven Feet) the pattern was perfect 12" in diameter, perfect, no gaps, no holes, shot well spaced.

    Same firearm, at 44' ( Fifteen yards) pattern was 41" with some (Gaps) holes 10"X12"

    Conclusion: For a snake you would need to be about 4' to 8' (one yard to three yards maximum. For a perched bird 10' to maybe 15' (3 yards to 5 yards).

    I would call them pretty much useless for survival.

    I decided to waste one more cartridge: Fired from the Winchester 1892 .45 Long Colt with it's 16" barrel at 33 feet (11 Yards) the pattern was 36" X 38" with some 8" and 10" Gaps. This was shot through two thickness of cardboard.

    Final conclusion use a .410 or 28 Gauge shotgun & save $12.00 for a box of ten cartridges.

    Just for kicks I decided to do the S&W model 17 with it's 8 3/8" barrel that I reamed out to .22 magnum, at a relative long range (55 Yards). It put 7 of the 14 shots fired into 1 1/8" Note: this was 55 Yards with iron sights, all 14 rounds were in 4 1/4" (including two flyers) at 55 yards. Now this is a survival meat getting piece of machinery.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 07-22-2011 at 07:58 PM.


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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    My aunt has a taurus judge, I've never shot it but from what I've heard it's a wicked gun. Her's shoots .45LC or 2" .410 shells, but recently taurus came out with a judge in .454 casull/.410
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    Personally I want the circuit judge, but the price is two rich for my blood....
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    Last edited by Sparky93; 07-22-2011 at 06:38 PM. Reason: add pic
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    It's always good to know the limitations of your ammunition, weapon, and self.
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    and credit cards, checking account, spare cash and how much of your wife's money she's apt to miss. Just sayin'.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky93 View Post
    My aunt has a taurus judge, I've never shot it but from what I've heard it's a wicked gun. Her's shoots .45LC or 2" .410 shells, but recently taurus came out with a judge in .454 casull/.410
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    Personally I want the circuit judge, but the price is two rich for my blood....
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    FWIW
    Awhile back I won a Circuit Judge and did a short review:
    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...e-Range-report.

    After shooting it some latey, my impression hasn't changed.

    Nor has my impression of shot out of a rifle/pistol shell.....Cool, but a poor substute for a shotgun....what ever size it may be.
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    I agree with Hunter63. A pistol with shot shells CAN NOT stand in for a real shotgun.
    9mm: Because I've seen a .45 bounce off of a windshield MORE THAN ONCE.

    9mm: Because even 1911 guys don't want to get shot with one of my "little" bullets.

    9mm: Because low round count single stack pistols suck in a gun fight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    Well this is at least the second time I have done this test in the last 50 years. (This is excerpted from an e-mail I sent a friend).

    It was/is awesome sunny today (72* above) calm wind, perfect for some testing.

    OK, 5 1/2" Barrel, cartridge .45 Long Colt "CCI" shot shell test. At a measured from the muzzle to target 7' (That is seven Feet) the pattern was perfect 12" in diameter, perfect, no gaps, no holes, shot well spaced.

    Same firearm, at 44' ( Fifteen yards) pattern was 41" with some (Gaps) holes 10"X12"

    Conclusion: For a snake you would need to be about 4' to 8' (one yard to three yards maximum. For a perched bird 10' to maybe 15' (3 yards to 5 yards).

    I would call them pretty much useless for survival.

    I decided to waste one more cartridge: Fired from the Winchester 1892 .45 Long Colt with it's 16" barrel at 33 feet (11 Yards) the pattern was 36" X 38" with some 8" and 10" Gaps. This was shot through two thickness of cardboard.

    Final conclusion use a .410 or 28 Gauge shotgun & save $12.00 for a box of ten cartridges.

    Just for kicks I decided to do the S&W model 17 with it's 8 3/8" barrel that I reamed out to .22 magnum, at a relative long range (55 Yards). It put 7 of the 14 shots fired into 1 1/8" Note: this was 55 Yards with iron sights, all 14 rounds were in 4 1/4" (including two flyers) at 55 yards. Now this is a survival meat getting piece of machinery.
    You mean to tell me that you shot ''minute of a rabbit'' groups at 55 yards with a .22 pistol? That's what I'm talking about, deadeye! Nice to see that there are some guys out there that can break the mold we have been smashed into relative to small game ranges. Good shooting, Brother!
    9mm: Because I've seen a .45 bounce off of a windshield MORE THAN ONCE.

    9mm: Because even 1911 guys don't want to get shot with one of my "little" bullets.

    9mm: Because low round count single stack pistols suck in a gun fight!

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    Senior Member Sparky93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter63 View Post
    FWIW
    Awhile back I won a Circuit Judge and did a short review:
    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...e-Range-report.

    After shooting it some latey, my impression hasn't changed.

    Nor has my impression of shot out of a rifle/pistol shell.....Cool, but a poor substute for a shotgun....what ever size it may be.
    Thanks for the info, I guess when things seem to good to be true they usually are. I'll have to shoot my aunts judge sometime and report back with a field test to see how it compares.

    My favorite gun I own is a H&R single shot 20 gauge, I shoot federal premium nosler ballistic tiped saboted slugs in it. The sad thing is the scopes worth three times as much as the gun, it has a luepold 2-7 power scope. The gun is a tack driver, it shoots dead on at 100 yards, an inch low at 150 yards, and I'm sure it could reach out to 200.
    Last edited by Sparky93; 07-24-2011 at 02:11 AM.
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockcop View Post
    I agree with Hunter63. A pistol with shot shells CAN NOT stand in for a real shotgun.
    How true that is, but so far this year I have dispatched 2 two rattle snakes that commited suicide, by that they thought they could set up shop by my front door.

    I 3 ft and the other just over 4 ft.

    Both took 1 shot of a CCI shot shell to the head, from a 3 inch .357 S&W model 13 at about 6 ft. They were DRT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    How true that is, but so far this year I have dispatched 2 two rattle snakes that commited suicide, by that they thought they could set up shop by my front door.

    I 3 ft and the other just over 4 ft.

    Both took 1 shot of a CCI shot shell to the head, from a 3 inch .357 S&W model 13 at about 6 ft. They were DRT.
    I also agree that they can still be very handy.
    9mm: Because I've seen a .45 bounce off of a windshield MORE THAN ONCE.

    9mm: Because even 1911 guys don't want to get shot with one of my "little" bullets.

    9mm: Because low round count single stack pistols suck in a gun fight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    How true that is, but so far this year I have dispatched 2 two rattle snakes that commited suicide, by that they thought they could set up shop by my front door.

    I 3 ft and the other just over 4 ft.

    Both took 1 shot of a CCI shot shell to the head, from a 3 inch .357 S&W model 13 at about 6 ft. They were DRT.
    If I had a rattle snake outside my front door I wouldn't go out there without a semi-auto 12 gauge. And I wouldn't stop shoot'n till their was a puddle where the snake used to be.
    "Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing."
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    It was fortunate that I had quite a bit of experience with a double barreled derringer in .410/.45 colt, bought it "just because it was cool", and at the time cheap at like $110 bucks.

    As the chamber/barrel is about 5" long, (with a .410 shell, you can see the end of the shell from the barrel end) and shooting it at various ranges, longest about 20 yds, I can say that there isn't much of a pattern once your past about 6 ft.
    With the .45 colt it tumbles as there is only about 3/4 in of "rifling", so keyhole groups means you never know how the bullet will hit.

    I consider this my "tackle box gun" and there are quite a few water snakes that have met their demise.

    So with this info, I still can't imagine that a Judge would do much better (pistol version).
    The redeeming factor of the Circuit Judge, is the rifled longer barrel for the .45 colt, and the 'insert" that straightens out the shot from a .410, resulting in about 2ft pattern at 30 ft or so.
    Problem is that you really can't mix and match shotgun and solid bullets with out changing out the "insert".

    My conclusion on shot for a pistol is that it is effective at a very short range, snake gun, but not a shoot a squirrel out of a tree.
    The CCI shot shells are about the best option for this, no matter what caliber, rather than spending the bucks for a Judge that doesn't do anything well, IMHO.

    Every one should have a few of these shot shells in the belt, just in case.

    As far a .22 shot shells, I can remember shooting trap at Boy Scout camps with .22 ss and shot shells, and they did seem to reach out there, but I haven't gotten the same results with any I have bought in , say the last 20 years. Maybe they were different?
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    Maybe you were different. Us old guys are harder to impress.

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    Senior Member Ole WV Coot's Avatar
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    I've tried all the CCI snake shot loads and out to 12 ft or so the 22mag out of a 6" bbl seems to work better than their heavier loads. Never tried any in a rifle, can't "fat finger" one in a 10/22 and never seem to have a single shot with me.
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    Well, this sure is an interesting thread.
    I have used .22LR shot shells (#12 shot) in the garden for gophers. Deadly at 15 feet. Harmless at 50 feet..... which is why I liked them for that purpose. They don't call it Rat Shot for nothing.

    Now lately I have had some .357mag shot shells custom loaded in #4 shot. (factory loads are #9 shot). This was done for backpacking with hopes of putting dinner in the pot with a .357 revolver. I think I have shot 2 of them, which means I have 48 left. I can pattern them if anyone is interested. But as we all know, the shot spreads out rather quickly in a rifled barrel. And that is why I went to a larger shot size. This is considered a close range gun for small game.

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    I'm thinking that the .22 Rat Shot doesn't seem to be as effective as it once was, but then again that might just be me, don't use it in the city house yard anymore, have a whole lot more neighbors now, so the air rifle is the order of the day for BYB's.

    As far as shot size, friend and I did some fooling around with different shot sizes in a Ruger Old Army .45 BP.
    #6 over about 20 gr of 4f powder, felt wad/cardboard...shot, bees wax/cotton over wad, did pattern pretty well at about 25 ft. Better than #8 or #9-1/2

    The smaller shot would give you more pellets, but less mass, kinda like shooting sand.
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    I commented a few months back on the fact that I had traded some traps for a couple old 410 shotguns. One of these(H&R Topper) had a shortened barrel.(21") I have used 22 rat shot snake shot whatever you want to call it. Imo this little 410 can't be matched by the 22 for dealing with unfriendlys in the yard be they four legged, no legged or two legged.(two very unfiendly copperheads so far) I use 5# shot and slugs depending on the unfriendly.

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