New Gun Control

[kyratshooter]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...giffords_n.htm

The enefitable renewal of effort.

But this time they are openly threatening use of executive order to bypass congress.

And these are the same guys that brought you Fast and Furious!

[Rick]

I think there is a difference because requesting the President use it and openly threatening the use of. But point taken. Anti gunners have the right to their opinions even if they are wrong.

[LowKey]

I've been reading a lot about this. Not to get too much into politics but both the left and the right think that if Obama does anything regarding large capacity he is going to lose a good chunk of his more conservative base. Something he can't afford so close to an election year.
But still bears watching. Especially considering who was not invited to the table.

[Beans]

I was informed Yesterday by the local Gun shop that BATF is now requiring that any high power (center fire) rifle sold within 100 miles of the US/Mexico Border must be reported to them immediately.

[Rick]

I'm really not surprised by that since the government is having to answer for their very ill-conceived (IMO) "Fast and Furious" program. Since the death of Brian Terry and the possible law suit from the family for the government's negligence I'm sure they want to resolve any criticism they can. Mr. Terry's family testified before Congress less than a month ago so the timing is about right. I wonder what their definition of "High Power" is?

[sushidog]

I think anything with greater muzzle energy than a Daisy would be considered "High Power." The rule is, if it can "put your eye out" it qualifies.

I guess my Benjamin with its 25 round tubular BB magazine would be banned as a high capacity assault rifle.

BTW, I just read a CNN article that the BATF still has 1,400 out of a 2020 weapons still "missing" (in the hands of the Mexican drug cartels) from their Fast and Furious program.

I guess I'm a little paranoid, but I'm begining to believe that these weapons were intentionally "lost" to create mayhem, that the Govt. can use as an excuse to "clamp down" and further just such legislation. The sting operation was designed from the beginning to sting us, and further erode our gun rights. To what ends? If I told you what I really think, you'd think I am loony toons. Remember, you are not paranoid if they really are out to get you.

Chip

[crashdive123]

IMO Fast and Furious was nothing more than a scheme to create a crisis. Many media outlets already report the statistic that 90% of the guns traced came from the United States. That is the data they were given, so that is the data they reported. The problem with that is that only the guns that could be "reasonably certain" they came from the United states were traced. That number is a very small percentage of the guns seized. The real number is more like 2% than 90%. 2% does not create a public demand to do something. Many, many guns being traced back to the United States demands that new laws be enacted in the interest of public safety. Problem is they got caught.

[Rick]

When you have the money to purchase a submarine for drug transport then you have the money to negotiate world wide with arms dealers in any country you choose. I find it laughable that the cartel would skulk across the border and buy a handful of AKs from Billy Bob's gun shop when they can buy them by the crate and the ammo and the clips and any other dang thing they want from any country they choose. The only thing I haven't seen employed down there are land mines but I'll bet they have them. Clamors, grenades, RPG, 30 and 50 cals, etc have all be seized. That ATF would focus on 2000 weapons instead of worrying about the 20,000 that came from Syria, Iran, or one of the African nations is pretty ludicrous in my book.

[Sparky93]

When you have the money to purchase a submarine for drug transport then you have the money to negotiate world wide with arms dealers in any country you choose. I find it laughable that the cartel would skulk across the border and buy a handful of AKs from Billy Bob's gun shop when they can buy them by the crate and the ammo and the clips and any other dang thing they want from any country they choose. The only thing I haven't seen employed down there are land mines but I'll bet they have them. Clamors, grenades, RPG, 30 and 50 cals, etc have all be seized. That ATF would focus on 2000 weapons instead of worrying about the 20,000 that came from Syria, Iran, or one of the African nations is pretty ludicrous in my book.

Not only are they submarines, but disposable submarines. Once they make the shipment they sink them.......Permanently

[sushidog]

That ATF would focus on 2000 weapons instead of worrying about the 20,000 that came from Syria, Iran, or one of the African nations is pretty ludicrous in my book.

I learned long ago to always respect my enemy. I always assume they are at least as smart as I am, and have their ducks in a row. Assuming your statement is true, (which I believe it is), ask yourself what could possibly be the ATF's motive if not to remove the 2000 US weapons from the cartel's grubby little hands? I think the answer is obvious - as has already been stated, to backdoor more US gun control regs. (I won't use the word laws, as laws are enacted by Congress.)

Evidently, we're not the only one who has drawn this same conclusion: (Warning: Political video clip - do not click if you will be offended.)



Chip

[Rick]

Chip - I don't give ATF that much credit. I think it is much worse than that. Melson was sitting in a temporary seat and needed some way to make a great impression that would land him the top ATF seat in a permanent capacity. Viola, Fast and Furious. The ATF used straw buyers to purchase guns legally then allowed them to be transferred across the border where "some" were found to be in the hands of cartel members. So far so good. The idea was they would be able to trace those weapons back to the straw purchasers and be able to shut down the gun smuggling network. Great idea and if it had worked Melson would be the Director of the ATF. The trouble is plans often look good on paper but don't function well in the real world. This one was a giant example of what can go wrong. People died over this and now Melson's career is probably over for good (which it should be).

[crashdive123]

I don't think that we have even seen the tip of the iceberg on Fast & Furious. While I don't necessarily give the ATF credit (although they were complicit), I do believe that the head of the Justice Department was involved. One comment that really struck a nerve with me was when somebody (interviewed on TV) said that he believed when the investigation was over it would make Water Gate look tame (paraphrasing).

[LowKey]

Introduced today:
http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com...arthy-gun.html

[Rick]

I'm working on the, ‘‘Stop Congress and Strengthen the U.S. Constitution Act of 2011’’.

[Ole WV Coot]

It's a start for them, throw it out and see who complains. NRA spoke at the UN flat out saying we wouldn't be part of their arms control agenda and as to anything else 51 senators care enough about getting re-elected that they oppose any gun control. Now we seem to have a run on handguns small enough for CC and I picked up a couple myself but I hope it isn't necessary. I do have an order in for a couple of 25rd mags from Ruger for the 10/22. Don't plan on burning anything up but I now have more high cap mags than necessary, I hope.

[kyratshooter]

I don't think that we have even seen the tip of the iceberg on Fast & Furious. While I don't necessarily give the ATF credit (although they were complicit), I do believe that the head of the Justice Department was involved. One comment that really struck a nerve with me was when somebody (interviewed on TV) said that he believed when the investigation was over it would make Water Gate look tame (paraphrasing).

No one died in Watergate. This plot against the Constitution resulted in many deaths on both sides of the border. It also was precipitated by the ATF promoting lying on the forms, and APPROVING THE SALES when the LGS clerks called the purchases in.

My LGS would not have even called the purchases in for approval if the buyer admitted being a felon. If the buyer was not a felon they violated their own "straw man" clause. They approved sales to known felons, or persons intending to illigally transfer possession, and broke the established law of the land, resulting in deaths of American citizens and forign nationals.

That is pretty close to treason, and it goes all the way up to the president as a cabinet level decision.

[BENESSE]

I read and reread the article. Twice. And for the life of me, can't understand what the big deal is.

Is it..."calling for "sound and effective steps" to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, including strengthening background checks"...or... "The group's suggestions included enforcing reporting laws that could have stopped the Tucson shooter from getting a gun"?

Damn right they should do all of the above IMO, but of course, they are not going to. Just not politically advantageous. Besides, how does any of that affect any of you? Seriously. If you are not a criminal or mentally unstable nothing should change for you. Unless you're reading between the lines and projecting. But then the anti-gun folks are guilty of the same thing. No wonder there's never been a meeting of the minds nor will there be, under these circumstances.

[kyratshooter]

I read and reread the article. Twice. And for the life of me, can't understand what the big deal is.

Is it..."calling for "sound and effective steps" to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, including strengthening background checks"...or... "The group's suggestions included enforcing reporting laws that could have stopped the Tucson shooter from getting a gun"?

Damn right they should do all of the above IMO, but of course, they are not going to. Just not politically advantageous. Besides, how does any of that affect any of you? Seriously. If you are not a criminal or mentally unstable nothing should change for you. Unless you're reading between the lines and projecting. But then the anti-gun folks are guilty of the same thing. No wonder there's never been a meeting of the minds nor will there be, under these circumstances.

Ms B, mental health records are protected by HIPPA regulations and opening health records for gun purchases would also allow them to be opened for bank loans, mortgague, leases....

10% of our nation is using or has used antidepressants, how many have had emotional counseling after divorce, job loss, death of a spouse or child?

I do not want my firearms purchases controlled by someone making arbatrary decisions because I once had marriage counseling under the supervision of a licensed therapist.

We have done this one before!

While we do not expect you liberal preppers to understand we would appriciate it if you would remember hashing over these points of intrusion into our privacy.

[BENESSE]

Yeah, seems like we've plowed this field before although I somehow expected that this thread twas gonna be something new.
And for the record, I am not liberal...far from it. But I guess to some, even an Independent sounds like liberal. Suppose that's my cross to bear on WSF

[kyratshooter]

Sorry B, but gun control is liberal agenda even if you are an "Independent" supporting it.

I support the Constitution.

I can not say "I support the Constitution, except for some things I do not agree with."