Fake Military Claims Among Us

[Winter]

Regardless, let's not forget that, according to the OP, he indeed did serve our country.

Posing nullifies and/or negates that service.

The Skip Hall guys profile stuff is pretty suspicious. However, stolen valor, as far as the law is concerned, is only prosecuted if someone made personal gains from their false claims.

It is not illegal to be a lying POS, it is illegal to wear rank, qualification badges, or articles of insignia you have not earned.

Military posers are everywhere.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

This is true. Not all things show on your DD214. Even though I know I did training with and received Both British and Honduran Jump wings( Appear the same as our Marine Jump wings, and the soldiers had to pay for the wings they presented us on the DZ in the exchange ceremony), No where does it say in my military record that this is true. I know this happened, can tell you things about both places that I would otherwise have no knowledge of, but can't prove in any shape, manner or fashion. I have more jumps than they recorded, but I never kept a jump log so can't refute that either. A school I attended and received the recognition of "Distinguished Honor Grad" also does not appear on my records, I even received a plaque from the NCO Assn. for that. However no proof (That I'm aware of) exists.

Posing nullifies and/or negates that service.

The Skip Hall guys profile stuff is pretty suspicious. However, stolen valor, as far as the law is concerned, is only prosecuted if someone made personal gains from their false claims.

It is not illegal to be a lying POS, it is illegal to wear rank, qualification badges, or articles of insignia you have not earned.

Military posers are everywhere.

Please note what I have said in the above post. Even though I had completed the required training, I had NO PROOF whatsoever to authorize my wearing of those Jump wings. I was even "Called on it" in my last unit, and told to NOT wear the insignia any longer. When I earned my British Jump wings, it was not in England, but in Scotland, just outside of Edinburgh. I also got to attend the "Military Tattoo" while I was there Which would be around September IIRC. I saw my very first Hard Core "Punk Rockers" while there. Spiked Mohawks, oversized Earrings and exotic dress. This was around '81-'82. Regardless of what you may have heard, not everything you do in the military is recorded and kept on file. Everyone in my Airborne Units knew I had completed the required training, but when I went to a Non- Airborne Unit, No one believed it NOR Could they find any proof that I had done these things. Also not all the info is accurate either.

For example I'll list the badges/awards etc from my DD214. Army service ribbon//overseas service ribbon 2d award//expert badge with m-16 rifle bar//Army Commendation medal// Army Good conduct medal 3d award//parachutist badge///////////sharpshooter badge with hand grenade bar//nothing follows.

No mention of my Distinguished Honor Grad is on my DD214, Nor is the two foreign jump wings and also missing is an Army Achievement award 2d award. So even assuming that he were to provide a copy of his DD214, Some info could be omitted. Why these are missing from my DD214 is anyone's guess. According to my DD214 the only school I attended while in service "Basic Airborne, 3 weeks January 1979///Nothing follows" No mention of the advanced Indirect Fire Infantryman's school I got DHG for at Ft. Bragg.

Basically all a DD214 is good for, is to show when you served, Some awards, and schools you may have attended, and some info may be omitted or not recorded at all. Now IF the person in question actually went through the "Q" course or not, who knows? One thing I DO know, is that a LOT of information is missing from MY DD214. Stuff I KNOW I did, but have NO WAY of proving...at all.

[Sarge47]

...Military posers are everywhere.

Well there was this one time I was in the 'Nam with Martin Sheen on a gun boat. Charlie was all around us but we had to keep going 'cuz Marlon Brando had gone rouge; he forgot that he was the Godfather 'er some crap! Oh...wait...that was the movie: "Apocalypse Now!" I used to drink a lot & do drugs so reality is somewhat blurred man!

[Trabitha]

Gotta say...
This discussion and many like it all over the web...look a lot like a modern day "witch hunt". All because of what really amounts to a handful of liars. I think before people lash out, call names or imply guilt...they have to have more proof. I think Pocomoonskyeyes3 and I have already pointed out how hard it is to prove service in many cases. That doesn't mean that the service didn't exist...it means it's clearly no one's business for a reason.

[Rick]

Poco, you should ask for your AARTS Transcript through the National Archives. All of your training should be listed there even if it's not on your DD-214. You'll need to forward them a copy of your DD-214 (don't send the original!!!). You can contact them at:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/

Here is some information on AARTS:

http://aarts.army.mil/

As to Skip, his DD-214 should list his specialty number and title. If, as many have said, he was 71-B (clerk/typist) then I doubt he was special forces. His DD-214 would probably be an 18 series especially if he was a team leader.

[crashdive123]

No mention of my Distinguished Honor Grad is on my DD214, Nor is the two foreign jump wings and also missing is an Army Achievement award 2d award. So even assuming that he were to provide a copy of his DD214, Some info could be omitted. Why these are missing from my DD214 is anyone's guess. According to my DD214 the only school I attended while in service "Basic Airborne, 3 weeks January 1979///Nothing follows" No mention of the advanced Indirect Fire Infantryman's school I got DHG for at Ft. Bragg.

Basically all a DD214 is good for, is to show when you served, Some awards, and schools you may have attended, and some info may be omitted or not recorded at all. Now IF the person in question actually went through the "Q" course or not, who knows? One thing I DO know, is that a LOT of information is missing from MY DD214. Stuff I KNOW I did, but have NO WAY of proving...at all.

Poco - TDY assignments (I assume you were assigned to those schools on a temporary duty assignment) will not appear on a DD-214. Additionally, it is the responsibility of every service member that is leaving the service to verify the accuracy of their DD-214. I did it every time I re-enlisted, and upon my retirement. I did find omissions that were easily corrected at the time. Some things of a classified nature will not appear, nor should they. Heck - the level of security clearance I held (above TS) is not even listed. Just part of the job.

[crashdive123]

Gotta say...
This discussion and many like it all over the web...look a lot like a modern day "witch hunt". All because of what really amounts to a handful of liars. I think before people lash out, call names or imply guilt...they have to have more proof. I think Pocomoonskyeyes3 and I have already pointed out how hard it is to prove service in many cases. That doesn't mean that the service didn't exist...it means it's clearly no one's business for a reason.

The questions are valid. They were posted as a resume enhancement (and rightfully so if true) for his site and the information he brings to the table. This presumably means that he is profiting from that resume. He elected to make his resume public, not us - so I say again, that the questions are valid. I also believe that he deserves the time to answer the questions posed before he is attacked (see quote below).

Before he receives a forum crucifixion - let's let him explain things.

[mosquitomountainman]

Good thing he posted a profile and introduction so we know all about him!

I know that not every MOS I worked in is on my DD-214. Lots of info. regarding my primary MOS is not included in "official" records. Not that there's anything exotic about my military service to begin with. I just did my job(s) and "retired" when my enlistment was up. It would be nice to hear his side of the issue before he stands in front of the firing squad. Wouldn't you want people to hold judgment until you had a chance to explain yourself?

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Poco, you should ask for your AARTS Transcript through the National Archives. All of your training should be listed there even if it's not on your DD-214. You'll need to forward them a copy of your DD-214 (don't send the original!!!). You can contact them at:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/

Rick, I doubt it is there at all. Even when I was in they couldn't find evidence of the wings OR The advanced course I graduated DHG from. I will say this though, if it weren't for that course I doubt seriously I would have gotten the ARCOM or "Cheese" medal (Achievement medal). It was the advanced learning from that course specifically that actually allowed me to perform well.

Quite honestly, it's NOT that important. I know what Really happened. It's not going to help me in any capacity here in the real world. Anyone who doesn't believe it can worry about it. It's over, in the past, And all the achievements I have done and $5 will get me a meal at Subway. For any benefits it will get me, a roll of toilet paper is more valuable in that respect. The only thing it is good for is to say I served, other than that...???? I have NEVER shown it anywhere. Really my Soc. Sec. card is better than my DD214, for all the good it does. There is no need for 11C2P mos in civilian world. My Original copy of my 214 is on file in my County Courthouse where I was discharged to. Other than a document of record for my descendants it is for all intents and purposes, useless. Just another Document to keep track of. Sad Huh?

[finallyME]

Your DD214 isn't completely useless. I used mine for my VA home loan. I also list my achievements on my resume when looking for a job. Although to me, and probably most military personal, my achievements don't mean much. But to my prospective employer, it means I wasn't a moron and got kicked out or something.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Your DD214 isn't completely useless. I used mine for my VA home loan. I also list my achievements on my resume when looking for a job. Although to me, and probably most military personal, my achievements don't mean much. But to my prospective employer, it means I wasn't a moron and got kicked out or something.

As far as any of the things you listed, sorry it's useless. I'll never get a VA Loan after learning all the things they can make you do to your property AND charge you for it, or revoke your loan.(someone I know had one for a home, they made him put a new roof on, even though the roof was still good. He said no. They said yes, or else. He said no again, then they had someone come and put a new roof on, as the Loan had already gone through) Also it's not really a "loan" from the VA. It's just a Guarantee from the VA to a bank, saying you will pay the loan or they will assume control(Foreclose) and then pay the bank. When I did try to get a house on the VA loan, they would never approve those I wanted or could afford. As for my job qualifications all they care about on the jobs I'm eligible for, is a strong back and weak mind. The only reason they care about my Vet status is so they can show it in their EEO paperwork. So yeah, it is worth more to employers than to me. But they have NEVER asked to see it, and some questions regarding your service are illegal to even ask if phrased even a wee bit wrong(like type of discharge), So most employers(that I've applied with) only ask if you are a Vet and leave it at that. Then they ask the military (MILPERCEN I believe) if it's true. YMMV but that's my experience with my DD214. In 21 years no one has ever asked to see it other than the Real Estate Agent. I didn't have it on me, so THEY got a copy of it for their records. I never did use my loan either.

[Nutman]

Not really unusual for military dicharges to eliminate info some missions just simply did not happen

[doug1980]

I never even got my DD214. I got a Certificate of Honorable Service, but still no 214. I've been trying to get mine for 2 years now with no luck. I would like to use it for my 10% discount at Home Depot and Lowes.

[hunter63]

I'll just wait and see how Skip handles all this, if he does.........Didn't really agree with his review on the 'tackical .22 in the firearms section, that he used on ....missions......But hey, what do I know.

[JPGreco]

The punishment for falsely presenting one's self as a soldier of any branch should be a firing squad of getting kicked in the nuts. 10 people line up to give you one solid punt. Then you get fined.

[Winter]

I have schools that are not on my dd214, but I have orders for any MOS changes. Same as when you get promotion orders. All awards come with a set of orders.

Poco, you should have orders for your foreign wings. You should also have the foriegn JM's listed on your jump log. If you don't have this stuff, YOU dropped the ball. Sorry but that's what it is.

All of this is besides the point. Mr Hall claims to be something so he has the burden of proof. I belong to a couple military forums and if you come in and say "I was this and that", and someone questions you, it is your duty to provide proof.

Not really unusual for military dicharges to eliminate info some missions just simply did not happen

BS. If you share a story on a mission that is still classified, you are a felon. Missions are not listed any in personnel records unless you received awards for it.

We have busted posers who have said "well, that mission was top secret so there's no records" Right, but you still got a pay stub during that time period that states exactly what unit you were with and your rank.

It's simple, do not claim what you can't prove. If you earned it, you can get it back. I know a guy who was awarded a CIB for an 80's korea gunfight. He petitioned for it and got it in last yr. Another guy got his orders for a bronze star in 2009 that he earned in 1970 working with the ARVN Army.

[Winter]

Doug, you need to get that ASAP, the longer you wait the harder it will be to do.

[prb]

Gents,
It is up to the soldier to make sure hiss DD214 has the correct info, not the clerk typist that copies it from your form 2-1. If you brought in your orders it would be on there. You don't just go to the "Q" course, it is an MOS producing school and your MOS's are all on your DD214. Honor Grad, in any course, is stated on the Diploma not your DD214 that indicates attendance and completion. Foreign jump wings are now put on DD214's (as are foreign awards) since the mid 90's.
This junk about super secret stuff not being released has nothing to do with DD214's....if Mr.Hall had been in SF (He has not) no SF soldier would ever allow some clerk to not include his primary MOS's and all of the SF schools attended. Overseas service and combat service is noted specifically for VA requirements....no matter if it was special operations oriented or not it is noted as no indication of mission is listed ergo there is no classification to DD214's. Mr.Halls DD214 indicates one tour in Korea as a clerk typist...no Vietnam service...no SF schools/MOS's or affiliation.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

Gents,
It is up to the soldier to make sure hiss DD214 has the correct info, not the clerk typist that copies it from your form 2-1. If you brought in your orders it would be on there. You don't just go to the "Q" course, it is an MOS producing school and your MOS's are all on your DD214. Honor Grad, in any course, is stated on the Diploma not your DD214 that indicates attendance and completion. Foreign jump wings are now put on DD214's (as are foreign awards) since the mid 90's.

OK so how would I go about getting those things verified. I got out In Jan '89. I was only an 11c2P NOT SF. The Advanced Indirect Fire infantryman's course was only offered at Ft. Bragg to the best of my knowledge. I never heard of it at any other Post or location. It was in the buildings on the other side of the road from "The Stockade" but closer towards where the road came out from the street that all the 82nd brigades were on. (Sorry but road names escape me).It was taught by a retired SF soldier, who REALLY knew his stuff. I would also doubt that there would be any proof that I completed JSIIDS training. (Joint Services Interior Intrusion Detection System) That might be useful if I were to look for a job with a security organization. Boring job really, sit at Brigade HQ and monitor the system. Every time a C-130 flew over low it would go off. They were going to replace it because of that.... still might be useful for job Apps.

[Pocomoonskyeyes3]

On a more positive note, this thread has been good for one thing at least. Turns out Old GI and I were at the same place, same time In a remote location, on an exercise but never met.(Many PM's to figure that out!) That just blows me away! I can just hear that Disney song "It's a small world after all" LOL