Adjusting load bearing gear AND Alice/Molle Pack frame waist belt for maximum comfort

[SSG HAWK]

Hello to everyone on this great forum. My first post and I have tried numerous searches here using different combinations of words trying to get this question answerred without success.

I just completed my Hellcat (Thanks enforcer!).I actually made one based on an Alice frame and one based on a gen four Molle frame just for comparisson.

I can not figure out how to adjust both my load bearing web gear that includes the basic load just like in the Army (including three canteens-it's hot in West Texas, extensive first aid pouch due to unusual health problems, butt pack, knife, etc which in total weighs about ten pounds) and the Alice/Molle waist belt from my pack frame so that most of the load of both end up on my hips. I was just a tanker in the service 40 years ago so either I do not remember or never knew how to deal with this.

What is the answer everyone is currently using or what did you 11bravo types do years ago?

Regards and glad to have found such a great group.

[NCO]

In FDF, trial and error... A lot of both...

[crashdive123]

Hey there SSG Hawk. Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service. Would you by chance have a picture of your setup? I have several set-ups, but probably not one just like yours. For me - tightening everything around the waist relieves the weight for the most part from my shoulders. A picture may be helpful. If you need help posting pictures, we are glad to help (took me a long time to figure it out).

[SSG HAWK]

Will try to post pictures tommorrow but definately will need directions on know to do so.

From looking at the Alice manual, it looks like the Alice pack frame belt is higher than the load bear gear belt.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[kyratshooter]

You wore the Alice gear so you would not need the LBE butt pack. Take that off.

You did not have a "special first aid pack". You had one aid pack worn on your shoulder strap. The medic carried the heavy meds. Put that inside the pack.

LBE was used to carry the ammo pouches, combat knife, pistol and two canteens. Extra ammo in bandoliers over the shoulders. All were placed on the sides so you would not get shot in the butt when you took fire. We also were know to remove the buttons from our shirts cause they held you up off the ground. Nothing on the front of the belt. When you took fire you instantly dumped the ALICE gear. That is why the quick release flippers are there.

Additional canteens were carried on the Alice pack. There are clip brackets for them. I think you can get up to 8 on there (that's 16 pounds of water, believe me I know).

Keep in mind that ALICE gear was designed to the spec of the ARMY, not the American backpacker association. It is crap gear built for one reason, it is hard to tear up. It hurt to carry it and they did not care. It fits wrong and they did not care. It is impossible to unify the entire ALICE system with the LBE and they did not care. Just the frame of the ALICE pack weighs 8 pounds, as much as a first class backpack loaded with a week of food.

The Army was actually mad because they were having to obtain real packs. The goal of the modern Army in the mid 20th Century was to supply the soldier with hot meals on the battlefield and the butt pack was there to prove you only needed one C-Rat for emergencies. We had the worlds greatest supply system, why did we need packs?

If my memory serves me correctly I never saw a tanker carry anything but a pistol on his belt. No insult intended, you rode in your weapon. I never saw an ALICE pack until I was in Ranger School. You probably never saw one in boot camp/ait.

I have, since 1974, not found anything I needed to carry bad enough to carry it in and ALICE pack.

[Rick]

I'm not sure you posted your question on the right forum. I think you meant it for the AR15 forum. That being said, the Molle straps on the Alice pack are a bit of a conundrum to figure out. There are actually two sets of adjustments. If you release the forward buckles the pack will drop lower allowing you to put more weight on your hips and less on your shoulders. Hope that helps.

[SSG HAWK]

NCO and Crashdive123; thanks alot. Your attitude is appreciated. I am trying to shift things things around on my LBE which actually is an up-to-date blackhawk molle rig.Also digging out my 5.11 vest (which I did not like because of the heat) and seeing if that is the answer.)

Kyratshoter. I deeply appreciate that your armor was cotton and "buttons" while mine was steel; not to mention the fact that you had the intestional fortutude to graduate Ranger school. My compliments. My senior partner is an Airborne Ranger with atleast two purple hearts and with out a doubt is the greatest leader I have ever had the pleasure to "serve" under during my life.

In any event I still need to carry the special medical items which would keep me alive, survival kit, ammo and water, etc. on my LBE when hiking in West Texas. I also will need clothing, food, more water, sleping bag, tent, etc in my Alice Pack. You probably are right that Alice stuff is not the best choice but it is what I have. Enforcer's Hell cat actually is quite comfortable with 40-50 pounds of total weight (haven't tried out more yet until I get this LBE issue resolved)with an all-in cost of around $75 including some extras.

If the wife can get the digital camera working later to day, I will try to post pictures.

Again I am very glad to have found this group is super knowledgable people.

[finallyME]

I wasn't 11B. I was 88M, so I drove a lot. I also did a few years in ROTC in college. What I am saying is KYRatshooter has WAY more experience than I do. In ROTC, they give you the oldest stuff they can find, ie ALICE pack and LBE. Most of what I saw people do in ROTC was lower the LBE so that the Ruck didn't rid on the LBE belt. I also had a friend who was in the 75th Ranger regiment. He told me to he always wore the LBE higher than the ruck, basically just below the ribcage. He also told me to cut off all the metal on the suspenders and use 550 cord to attach to the belt. In Iraq we basically ditched all LBE equipment and just attached a few ammo pouches on the front of our flack jacket. With interceptor body armour, the LBE was pointless. Besides, as a truck driver, it sucks to have anything on your back. By the way, I was a HET driver and when we actually did what we were suppose to we were the cab drivers for the Abrams tanks. Basically what the whole Navy is to the Marine Corps.
So, now that you know where I come from, feel free to ignore at will.
I think that if you want to wear both systems, then wear the LBE higher than the waist belt on the ruck. If you want to have the ruck belt sit on the LBE belt, then I would remove anything on the back of the LBE belt. I believe KY said the same thing.
Another thought, do you need two systems. Why not just attach everything to the Hellcat? If you are using a MOLLE waist belt on the Hellcat, then you can attach a canteen on either side. You can also get a front chest rig. This is kinda what I am talking about.
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These would help you have two systems that worked better together.

Here is one that attaches to the pack.
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[SSG HAWK]

Great ideas 88M. Raising the LBE so it is slightly higher than the Molle Waist belt seems like it is going to work. Where did you locate the front rig that attaches to the back pack. Looks very kool and I may have to have one.
thanks again.

[1stimestar]

I have a front pack that I sometimes wear when mushing. I wear it under my anorak/parka. It keeps my battery packs from freezing and is quite comfortable. It might be less so in the heat of W. Texas though.

[finallyME]

Where did you locate the front rig that attaches to the back pack.

I haven't done it yet, although it is on the list of setting up my rig. I am still deciding if I want to buy one, or make my own. If you look in the picture, it attaches to the shoulder straps of your pack, and then the waist belt.

[SSG HAWK]

Hey there SSG Hawk. Welcome to the forum and thank you for your service. Would you by chance have a picture of your setup? I have several set-ups, but probably not one just like yours. For me - tightening everything around the waist relieves the weight for the most part from my shoulders. A picture may be helpful. If you need help posting pictures, we are glad to help (took me a long time to figure it out).

With everyone's input I have adjusted my 5.11 vest by moving things around, mostly higher and removing unnecssary pouches . Then adjusting the Hellcat Med Alice things fit just fine. Thanks for everyone's input and sorry it took me so long but I able trying to recover from an extended hospital stay and carry a killer work load besides. Thanks again. Great Forum.

[SSG HAWK]

Crashdive,
Rick and Chris are helping with the picture posting issue. Thanks for your offer. MY chief PC technition (wife)came back from her trip but was unsure how to downsize the pictures. Rick has asked Chris what the size limits are and I thought we would start there. Once that question is answerred I may give you a shout.

I have the pack and the LBV set up so not to interfer and still allow the pack weight to be carried on the hips but I have to wear my line one (pants belt and suspenders with pistol, xtra Mag, fixed blade, blow out kit and Multitool) hanging lower to make it work.I am happy that the LBV works with the medium Alice Hellcat rig and the large Alice I mounted on the Enforcer Bobcat inspired mounting on a gen 4 1603 Molle frame. SUCCESS! Only problem was I needed longer tees shirts to cover the plumber's crack. As soon as my health recovers I will give it all a load test. Possibly by then we will have the picture posting thing figured out.

[Rick]

I know you know this but some might not. Just remember that you want as much of your pack weight as possible on the big bones and muscles of the body. That means seating the pack properly on the hips. Your pelvic bones and femurs should be taking most of the stress with the big thigh muscles and glutes doing the work. Your shoulders are just there to balance the load and keep it from sliding side to side while walking.

If your shoulders are hurting after hiking for a short distance then you probably have too much weight on the shoulder pads. That can cause muscle injuries to the shoulder, back and neck as well as compression injuries to the spine. Listen to your body. It will tell you what you are doing wrong.