What are you talking about ?????Originally Posted by nell67
What sugar, Where ?
What are you talking about ?????
What sugar, Where ?
A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.
Oh God,it's too late!!!!!!
Oh no.....!
Tony's off his meds again! Also he's coom out o' the closet! I shoulda known there was something phony about Tony when I saw his Kilt was the only one trimmed in lace!
SARGE
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
Albert Einstein
Proud father of a US Marine....SEMPER FI!
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin
AHHHH The Nukes Have Been Launched, There Gonna Fry My Sorry A**
A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.
Now THATS funny!!! Nice one Sarge!Tony's off his meds again! Also he's coom out o' the closet! I shoulda known there was something phony about Tony when I saw his Kilt was the only one trimmed in lace!
Erm *Thinks of wicked comeback* .................... *5 Hours later*Tony's off his meds again! Also he's coom out o' the closet! I shoulda known there was something phony about Tony when I saw his Kilt was the only one trimmed in lace!
Your a cheese
A wise person does at once, what a fool does at last. Both do the same thing; only at different times.
Specifically in answer to your firearm question: A reliable and reasonable weapon for defense against a grizzly bear would be a 12 gauge slide action shotgun loaded with slugs. I've always preferred the slide action over a semi-auto for a pack gun as they are generally less tempermental. A short barreled shotgun with an aluminum receiver - such as an Ithaca Featherlight, is a fairly low weight weapon. As to pistols, a 44 Rem Magnum is roughly on par with a 30-30 Winchester, and is not a caliber I would care to rely on when facing a Grizzly. Unless you are a good pistol shot and like shooting something like a 454 Casull magnum - more than I do - I'd stick with a 12 gauge slide action shotgun. To be of any use in case of bear attack - your gun needs to be immediatley accessible - which generally requires some training or long term hunting skills.
Last edited by RBB; 01-29-2008 at 01:49 AM.
Raised By Bears
Bear Clan
I have hunted an still hunt Alaska where the question is not will I see bear
but how many. I carry a custom .454 with 4.5 barrel and a mod 70 Winchester
.458. The .454 will put one down for keeps. And yes I know this first hand.
If I was only backing and not hunting I would only carry the .454. By the
way bear spray only ads seasoning for the bear.
Carefull, traderran. This trail cuts across Yellowstone National Park and other BLM land. While the BLM recognizes state law on weapons, the National Park Service does not (for now). While your experience may be fine for Alaska it is not okay to tote, concealed or otherwise) on National Park land.
"Neither hunting nor firearms are allowed in Yellowstone's backcountry."
Source: http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisi...ntryhiking.htm
Last edited by Rick; 01-29-2008 at 01:12 PM.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Listen To What Rick Is Saying About Firearms On Blm And National Park Land, It Is All True.
There is no greater solitude than that of the Tracker in the forest, unless perhaps it's that of the wolf in the wilderness.
the only good i can see a gun being in a bear attack situation is to shoot your buddy in the leg so you can out run him. not to mention all of the laws broken as previosly mentioned by carring one in the park. concealed for self defense against other humans is about the only reason i could see for carring one in a state park, and it is still illegal to do so.
Not in Indiana. You can carry concealed in state parks and on BLM land. The only place you can not carry is Corps of Engineers property.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
If legal to carry in that location, I'd pack a Smith and Wesson .357 Airlight revolver in a Wilderness tactical holster. Discreet and deadly combination for man or bear.
If it's illegal then don't do it.
If you don't know how to operate it or carry it safely then don't do it.
People haven't always had guns in bear country. You can survive without one. If you know what you're doing and can carry one legally then I'm all for it. I'll support you 100%. But are you going to tuck it away in your pack? Won't that defeat the purpose of readiness?
I've always guessed it's that way because the poor COE boys don't get to carry guns themselves. Just a thought from a fellow parkie...
Will it work? I've had a TASER deployed on me in training, and I've deployed one against two other people. It worked, but I don't think it would work on a bear. They don't seem to work as we'd hope on dogs, and I recall seeing a TASER video demonstrating the "Animal TASER." Basically the dude drops a bull with one. Cool vid. Look it up.
He's right. Ironically, just because you might could carry the gun lawfully it could still be illegal to use it against the wildlife in the protected habitat that you were encroaching upon or simply for discharging the weapon in the park.
If you shot a bear that was about to bite you I wouldn't arrest you unless (a) officer discretion was yanked from me by an upper echelon or (b) you did something stupid like tried to turn the cub den into a petting zoo and mom decided to suggest that wasn't a good idea.
I'm sure you know there are packs/buttpacks designed for conceal carry. I think the down side of not carrying concealed in a park is you risk being reported by "concerned" park goers. Don't advertise and you won't get bothered or cause some Ranger to respond to an unnecessary call.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
I personally don't want to be dead or a part of the food chain (despite the "odds") so I (like James Madison) believe that it is my right to defend my life with a firearm. In that spirit, I've been trying to find that perfect lightweight backpacking defense gun also, but it's not easy. I've settled on a .40 cal polymer pistol with double action fire capability and no safety(or maybe a backstrap/trigger safety) and ideally a decocker for hammer down open carry. A double action trigger allows you to try to fire a second time if the round doesn't fire. I know what your thinking...why not a large caliber revolver like a Ruger .454 Casull? Had one, and it was like carrying around a cinder block. Much too heavy, and with one shot (deer hunting 3 years ago), I managed SIGNIFICANT hearing loss in my left ear, not to mention CONSTANT ringing (aka Tinitus).A revolver is a more dependable gun, but 5 or 6 shots is not enough in my opinion. If you are defending yourself from a large animal, you want to throw a lot of lead quickly, and I'm sure your shots won't be well placed. Most state parks in WI will let you possess a gun if it is unloaded and cased. A revolver is just to slow to load in an emergency, but a pistol is pretty damn quick. Slap in a mag, rack and shoot. I also like to attach a light to the light rail and sleep with it "ready to roll" incase something goes BUMP in the night. I've done some penetration testing with .40 cal FMJ ammo, and I'm pretty satisfied that it would penetrate the skull of a bear at 50 ft. The .40 also gives you about 10-12 shots which is better than a revolver. (Technically, my penetration testing for the 9mm FMJ round out performed my .40 and .45 test, and you get 15 to 17 shots) The ballistics of a .40 cal are similar to a .357 at 100 yards, and perform like a HOT and heavier 9mm round. My use of a pistol would also be a last resort as the beast is attacking me. (Shoot when you can see the whites of their eyes
) I like to "open carry" while hiking/backpacking so I chose locations (ie. non-state parks) that allow me to exercise this right.
P.s. I had a buddy who chased a bear out of camp in Canada (entered a tent in the middle of the night) with firecrackers, so you might want to add those to your backpack too.
Last edited by kx250kev; 04-29-2008 at 01:49 AM.
kx250 - You might want to re-think how quickly you can load a wheel gun. I have no doubt I can load my .32 or .38 and fire before you can load your automatic and fire. I use speed loaders, of course. Once I snap the cylinder closed it's ready. Once you load the clip you still have to cycle a round. By then I've fired. Just a thought.
You might want to take a look at this thread. I just went through the same process and yesterday settled on the Springfield XD .45 Service Model in 4".
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...ead.php?t=2678
Just for fun, how about a 6 shot wheel gun, a reload and six more shots in 2.9 seconds?
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/21940/..._shooter_ever/
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
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