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Thread: gun for backpacking

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I can assure you that pepper spray works on dogs and works well. It has saved my tush on a number of occasions. The only dogs it won't work on are those with long hair over their eyes like a St. Bernard (wet mouth) or similar. I've sprayed them with no immediate affect. Although, after a couple of minutes even they become disinterested. Any other dog is impacted immediately. In over a decade of working in other peoples homes I was never bitten by a dog. Part of that is being able to "read" a dog and part of that was knowing when to use the spray. I can also attest to the fact that spray has NO affect on Blue Jays, however.
    NOT in my experience as a Patrolman for over fifteen years and now a Detective/Supervisor/Instructor for alot more than a few years. Police grade (10% O.C.) is stronger than most civilian grade sprays and it does't work on dogs. After a "couple minutes" it is too late for it to take affect and you are already shredded. You will still get your a$$ torn off right after a good burst in the face by a crack house guard dog. In fact N.O.P.D. had a few law suits due to dogs having to being shot that were not affected by pepper spray. I know several officers who had to be zipped back up after it's lack of effect. I have sprayed and witnessed being sprayed more dogs than somebody can shake a stick at and it DOES NOT WORK. They don't like being hit with something wet in the face, mind you, but pepper spray does not turns dogs off. FREEZE +P is pepper spray plus tear gas and it works, but not regular 10% pepper spray. Maybe what you have is not straight 10% Police grade pepper spray but something on the lines of mace or tear gas mix. I suppose it is possible that you have a pepper spray that is specifically designed for dogs that is of higher O.C. concentration than that of standard Police (stronger than most civilian) grade 10% pepper spray. That product I am not aware of, but there is alot I don't know about in this world. I do know I will never expect Police O.C. spray to work on dogs ever again. Stay Safe.
    Last edited by glockcop; 09-16-2009 at 10:52 PM.


  2. #182
    Junior Member ieatcrayons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf65 View Post
    Most on here know I'm a cop no big secret, so here is a little on guns and backpacking in a park as posted in another thread. A gun is not kit for survival but since you asked and may be to lazy to follow Rick's link here ya go."I want to carry a firearm for protection." Firearm advocates have used this statement excessively as justification for carrying firearms in national park activities. The reality of daily life, however, is that crime incidents in state and national parks in the United States generally, are extremely low. Additionally, when serious and violent crimes have been recorded, most incidents are directed at park employees, namely maintenance staff and peace officers, and not park patrons. Crimes indexed by the Park Officials Incidence Based Reporting (IBR) data reveals that the most frequently occurring crimes within State and National parks tend to be drug possession, petit or grand larcenies, and miscellaneous misdemeanors, usually in the camping areas. Rarely do these categories include violent crimes and/or assaults. The argument promulgated for self-protection by firearm proponents is not supported by available data collected thus far within the State and National Parks. All of this data is readily available to the public, and accordingly, the assertion that it is necessary to carry weapons on public property is effectively rendered moot, since data that has been collected by federal and state park law enforcement does not support a need for self-protection on state lands whatsoever. There does exist, however, information which links together two very important observations:The aggregate rate of injuries and accidents increases when persons other then law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms and
    The aggregate rate of crime increases when persons other than law enforcement officers carry concealed or non-concealed firearms.
    Statistics collected by park law enforcement and social organizations and scientists around the nation suggests that the higher prevalence of weapons result in higher accident and injury rates, both to the owner-operator of the firearm, and to bystanders. Carry the bear spray as suggested a good one used by a friend of mine (Medicine Wolf on this forum) in Montana who is a Ranger in the middle of bumblefook nowhere is- Counter Assault Bear Deterrent.
    Bushwacker Backpack & Supply Co. Inc.
    120 Industrial Court
    Kalispell, MT 59901
    Attention: Mr. Pride Johnson
    Tel: 1-800-695-3394
    E-Mail: original@counterassault.com
    Website: counterassault.com

    Bear Spray plays an important part in reducing attacks during human encounters with bears. It is an effective deterrent of North American bears, but it can be adversely affected by wind, rain, temperature, and even how close the bear is when it charges. When purchasing bear spray it is important to remember that personal defense sprays are not the same as bear spray. Although both types of sprays are made from oleoresin capsicum, it is the capsaicin and related capsaicinoids that are the active ingredients in bear spray. Therefore, if you see claims on a large can that state 10%, 20% or 30% oleoresin capsicum, it is a personal defense spray, not bear spray.
    The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulates bear sprays pursuant to an Act of Congress. Look for the EPA registration and establishment numbers, usually found at the bottom of the front label; only bear sprays will have this information. Also, bear spray labels will clearly refer to bears, and state it is a bear deterrent, bear repellent, or for stopping attacking bears.
    Currently the EPA requires that the concentration of Capsaicin and related capsaicinoids range between 1 and 2.0%. The variance in potency within this range is negligible, and all will affect the eyes, nose, throat and lungs of a bear. The minimum size can the EPA will register is 7.9 ounces, or 225 grams.

    Just some food for thought.
    Beo,

    i second OLE WV more than any post i read.

    but for Beo.. if we go by your where violent crimes happen the most vs where they happen the least..... then schools.. restaurant.. even homes wouldn't be a place where Most of your Violent crimes happen. now i don't know that for sure.. but it sounds right. an i am talking mostly in general. i carry because i can.. and just for that one time i hope to never need it.. its there just in case i do. i live in arkansas. north arkansas is where i grew up. just the other day me an my gf were in some no-where little town....gas station and post office.. when a small truck pulled up to get gas. there were 6 grown people all settin in the back of this thing and 3 grown people in the front. you could tell it was the weekly/monthly trip to town. one of the guys that got out of the back of that truck had a knife strapped to his leg that was at least a foot an a half long. i do not want to run into his family while out backpacking. now.. before someone chimes in with you shouldn't be backpacking on there land. in AR.... there are LOTS of privately own sections of land in our WMA's. and i do not want to sound like there all crazy hill billy's. only some of us are!! =) i say if i need one in the mall..i need one in the woods..
    I bring nothing to the table

  3. #183
    Senior Member hunter63's Avatar
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    I just though I would ad this..............


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  4. #184
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    The stuff we used was called Dog Stop. It stopped humans, too. We were walking to the coffee shop one day and one of the guys spritzed it into the air. The wind caught it and dropped it on a guy behind me. We had to forgo the coffee and take him to the ER instead.

    I was taken to the ground by a goat and a German Shepherd (long story. They tagged teamed me) and the dog stop was the only thing that saved my bacon. The Shepherd was coming head long at me when I hit him with the spray and he did an abrupt 90 and buried his face in the yard.
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    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    To all of you, it comes down to this for me, I would rather have it (gun) and not need it than need it and not have it.
    I know what hunts you.

  6. #186
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARKY View Post
    To all of you, it comes down to this for me, I would rather have it (gun) and not need it than need it and not have it.
    'Nuff said.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarky View Post
    to All Of You, It Comes Down To This For Me, I Would Rather Have It (gun) And Not Need It Than Need It And Not Have It.
    Best Advice Yet!!!!
    Last edited by glockcop; 09-19-2009 at 12:40 AM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockcop View Post
    NOT in my experience as a Patrolman for over fifteen years and now a Detective/Supervisor/Instructor for alot more than a few years. Police grade (10% O.C.) is stronger than most civilian grade sprays and it does't work on dogs.
    I have 13 years as a LEO, and have personally used spray on dogs on at least two occasions. On both occasions, the dogs immediately turned and fled.
    "How do you know that my dimwitted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation used to lower people's expectations thereby enhancing my ability to effectively maneuver within any given situation?" -Deputy Dewey Riley, Scream 2

  9. #189
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    vertebrate animals are put together pretty much the same way in terms of nerves and brain centers. Some irritant hitting the eyes of any vertebrate is going to cause pain receptors to start clicking in the brain.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  10. #190

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    If you shot a bear 10 times in the face with a .22 would he keep coming at you?

  11. #191
    Senior Member kyratshooter's Avatar
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    Good question.

    The world record Alaskan Brown was killed with one .22 rimfire to the brain.

    But I once saw a Wyoming Griz cover 200 yards and take ten 220gn .35 Whelen slugs before he fell at the shooter's feet.
    If you didn't bring jerky what did I just eat?

  12. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by kyratshooter View Post
    Good question.

    The world record Alaskan Brown was killed with one .22 rimfire to the brain.

    But I once saw a Wyoming Griz cover 200 yards and take ten 220gn .35 Whelen slugs before he fell at the shooter's feet.
    I have to see that record for myself. What is your source? Don't skull damage keep them out of record books?

  13. #193
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    It's my understanding it was a rectum shot. Plugged him up solid. In just a couple of days the bear passed out. He finally died because no one was brave enough to pull the .22 out. The resulting pressure release would have surely killed them.
    Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.

  14. #194
    USMC retired 1961-1971 Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    It's my understanding it was a rectum shot. Plugged him up solid. In just a couple of days the bear passed out. He finally died because no one was brave enough to pull the .22 out. The resulting pressure release would have surely killed them.
    Now Now Rick that is such a crappy story
    Surivial is just an unplanned adventure when you are prepared

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARKY View Post
    To all of you, it comes down to this for me, I would rather have it (gun) and not need it than need it and not have it.
    Man Survives 2 Grizzly Bear Attacks in Alaska Wilderness

    ' Rick Sinnott of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game said that Miller was very fortunate to have survived the bear attack. He recommended carrying a more powerful gun while in the Alaska Wilderness, saying that you would either need to be “a very good shot or very lucky to stop a brown bear with a .357 Magnum.” '

    http://www.wikipeers.com/news/3999-M...ilderness.html
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  16. #196
    Senior Member 2dumb2kwit's Avatar
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    What we need to keep in mind, is that running an animal off, or even killing an animal, is very different than stopping a charging animal. Think about it.
    Writer of wrongs.
    Honey, just cuz I talk slow doesn't mean I'm stupid. (Jake- Sweet Home Alabama)
    "Stop Global Whining"

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