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Thread: Wilderness First Aid Kit

  1. #1

    Default Wilderness First Aid Kit

    This is the kit I carry 90% of the time when I am in the woods. It is simple and does not have a lot fancy stuff in it. I do carry Mastisol because it works so well. But no quick clot, Sam splints, or any other high dollar items. Anyway here is a short video.



  2. #2
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    That was a very good review and a nice kit. I am confused on one item. You said you don't carry QuikClot but you do have a tourniquet. So I assume you feel there is some potential need to deal with arterial bleed. Using a tourniquet long term not only shuts down the bleeder but also all other arteries and veins as well as the lymphatic system. Once a tourniquet that has been on for some time is removed there is a severe systemic inflammatory response that occurs that not only can damage organs but result in death. In addition, utilizing a tourniquet high on the thigh is very difficult and not always effective. I've read industry numbers that tourniquets applied at the top of the leg fail 33% of the time.

    http://www.gohandh.com/category/tourniquets/tk-4l/

    If you carry a hemostatic agent like QuikClot or Celox then you have the ability to utilize the tourniquet to stop blood flow, add the hemostatic agent, bandage then release the tourniquet. You've stopped the arterial bleed and restored circulation throughout the limb. You would also reduce or eliminate compression injuries to underlying skin, muscle and nerves that can be caused by long term use of the tourniquet.

    I would suggest you revisit your decision on a hemostatic agent to be used in conjunction with the tourniquet. I think you'll accomplish what you intend to without the negative impacts that a tourniquet can cause when used alone. You'll also have a fall back if you find the need to use a tourniquet in the groin area but find it is not effective in stopping the blood flow. You'll be able to use the hemostatic agent by itself.

    Google Problem with Tourniquets if you want to read more. Just some thoughts to consider.

  3. #3
    Not a Mod finallyME's Avatar
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    That kit looks like the exact size of mine. I have been looking for a good case, and that looks good. Is it maxpedia?
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    That was a very good review and a nice kit. I am confused on one item. You said you don't carry QuikClot but you do have a tourniquet. So I assume you feel there is some potential need to deal with arterial bleed. Using a tourniquet long term not only shuts down the bleeder but also all other arteries and veins as well as the lymphatic system. Once a tourniquet that has been on for some time is removed there is a severe systemic inflammatory response that occurs that not only can damage organs but result in death. In addition, utilizing a tourniquet high on the thigh is very difficult and not always effective. I've read industry numbers that tourniquets applied at the top of the leg fail 33% of the time.

    http://www.gohandh.com/category/tourniquets/tk-4l/

    If you carry a hemostatic agent like QuikClot or Celox then you have the ability to utilize the tourniquet to stop blood flow, add the hemostatic agent, bandage then release the tourniquet. You've stopped the arterial bleed and restored circulation throughout the limb. You would also reduce or eliminate compression injuries to underlying skin, muscle and nerves that can be caused by long term use of the tourniquet.

    I would suggest you revisit your decision on a hemostatic agent to be used in conjunction with the tourniquet. I think you'll accomplish what you intend to without the negative impacts that a tourniquet can cause when used alone. You'll also have a fall back if you find the need to use a tourniquet in the groin area but find it is not effective in stopping the blood flow. You'll be able to use the hemostatic agent by itself.

    Google Problem with Tourniquets if you want to read more. Just some thoughts to consider.
    Rick, I will explain why I made the choices in this kit. First off personal experience. I have been a Paramedic for 15 years. I have only seen a handful of injuries that have needed more than direct pressure to stop the bleeding. Those injuries were usually penetrating injuries to the heart or other solid organ. The info that is coming back from the conflicts our military is in are making the EMS protocols in my area change when it comes to tourniquets. Our protocols are governed by ER and Trauma surgeons. There word is good enough for me. I have also discussed Quick Clot with other MD's. I have been told by then that they prefer a tourniquet to Quick Clot. I am no doctor, just a lowly firemedic. I hope that explains why I made the choices in my kit.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by finallyME View Post
    That kit looks like the exact size of mine. I have been looking for a good case, and that looks good. Is it maxpedia?
    Yes sir it is a Maxpedition

  6. #6
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I'm not saying you're wrong. I think it is a well thought out kit. Most of us will never encounter an arterial bleed in our lifetime unless we hold an occupation such as yours. But it does happen. I'm only offering up some thoughts for consideration.

    Can I ask a favor? In your next in-service, if you can, bring up the long term use of a tourniquet such as one might encounter in a wilderness setting and see what the instructor/doctor has to say? I can envision someone waiting hours or overnight to be rescued under the right conditions. I think it would be of benefit to everyone here.

    I don't have the answer and I'm not a medical professional. I just try to read everything I can find to self educate and we know that is not always right.

  7. #7
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    Amputation,,,, would be a good reason for a tourniquet,, like if a bear rips your foot off or something,,,, jmho Nice Video IA

  8. #8

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    Good video, thanks for Sharing that.
    I Wonder Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink what ever comes out?"

  9. #9
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Yeah, but it would be a bear trying to get it on and fight the bear at the same time. You'd wind up with Beary Beary. (I slay myself).

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I'm not saying you're wrong. I think it is a well thought out kit. Most of us will never encounter an arterial bleed in our lifetime unless we hold an occupation such as yours. But it does happen. I'm only offering up some thoughts for consideration.

    Can I ask a favor? In your next in-service, if you can, bring up the long term use of a tourniquet such as one might encounter in a wilderness setting and see what the instructor/doctor has to say? I can envision someone waiting hours or overnight to be rescued under the right conditions. I think it would be of benefit to everyone here.

    I don't have the answer and I'm not a medical professional. I just try to read everything I can find to self educate and we know that is not always right.
    I am with you brother I did not think you were saying I was wrong. I was just trying to give you the reasoning behind my kit. I will ask ansk an MD next time I talk to one about the long term effect of both Quick Clot and a tourniquet.

  11. #11
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I meant to comment on the pouch, too (I just went back and watched it again). I think the rip away feature has to be one of the best designs to come down the pike in a long time. You can have it securely mounted to your pack and still have it off it seconds so you can use it. Cool Beans.

  12. #12

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    Rick, I have an update. I have talked to an MD recently. I was not aware Quickclot had changed formulas. I was operating off old info that the exothermic reaction from the 1st generation Quickclot was causing big problems down the road. as far as tourniquets go he said he has personally used then for over an hour with no problems. He is also going to do more research on the subject. Hope that helps a few folks. It has made me reconsider Quickclot.

  13. #13
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    Good deal. The new stuff is packed in a sponge so not only have they eliminated the problems caused by heat, they have it made so it stays where it's put. Combat proven stuff.

    I like the 1 hour window, too. That's actually longer than I had thought it would be. It could even be longer I guess since that was his personal experience. Thanks! Much appreciated.

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