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Thread: "Intentional".....Pre-planed long-term WILDERNESS Existing.

  1. #21
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    I think we may be taking some of this out of context. If you look at any past peoples it wasn't mental toughness that kept them going. It's all they knew. There was no other way of life. Starving Inuits grew up as starving Inuits or whatever group you want to look at. I'm not discounting the need for mental toughness I'm just saying that we are looking at others through our own eyes and that might not be a good reference point.

    Homesteaders of early America took everything with them they could carry whether that was by wagon or by pack horse or mule. They didn't settle until they had found a place that had everything they needed to survive.

    One other thought. Some folks might well be able to live for a year in the wilderness. Just remember that you only hear about the 1% that were successful. You don't hear much about the 99% that either gave up and went home or died in the process. (those are my numbers. I just offered them to illustrate my point).


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    It is interesting, that even though the Original Post made it clear that this was not a survival situation, many respondents (not all) took it in that direction.

    It seems clear that "OUR" thinking is not objective, but first filtered through, "Can I do That" and next "Do I think anyone could do that" and finally "No one would ever want to do that".

    I'll bet that if it was an international Olympic event and youth started training at age 5 like they do for figure skating, we would be surprised at the outcome. Look at the things humans do in the Olympics that would be imposable if you did not see it with your own eyes.

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    I agree that it can be done. But, like the Olympics, there's only one winner and a lot that didn't win. I don't think the majority could live that way but there certain are those that have and could do it.

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    I was born under a wandrin' star
    I was born under a wandrin' star
    Wheels are made for rolling, mules are made to pack
    I've never seen a sight that didn't look better looking back
    I was born under a wandrin' star

    Mud can make you prisoner and the plains can bake you dry
    Snow can burn your eyes, but only people make you cry
    Home is made for coming from, for dreams of going to
    Which with any luck will never come true
    I was born under a wandrin' star
    I was born under a wandrin' star

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    I wish to offer an observation.

    I guess I have to wonder where this is going or supposed to go.
    SD, no offence intended, but there seems to be a underlying theme that you are trying to get at.

    It's just interesting that you seem to get touchy when thread goes a different direction then what was intended? Even though most are honestly trying to stay on message.

    Age and experience give everyone different skills, views and beliefs, and mostly people tend to rely on personnel experience....hence scenarios.

    Just an observation, but all of us do not live in Alaska, so are relating our own experiences.
    My apologies if I'm missing something, as I really enjoy hearing and in a way experiencing the things you have seen/done in your life.........
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    As in the Olympics those who are successfull have a myriad of coaches behind them guiding their way. To live not just exist needs skills sets that need to be learnt and practised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I'll bet that if it was an international Olympic event and youth started training at age 5 like they do for figure skating, we would be surprised at the outcome. Look at the things humans do in the Olympics that would be imposable if you did not see it with your own eyes.
    You mean like this.

    Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

    It is more than most can fathom and different when it becomes your life but I do enjoy the speculations posted. I'm here to explore how people think and this thread is rich in that regard. The real test of is how you embrace the reality of the situation you find yourself in and not any preconcieved ideas. I truly am greatful for what I am learning and try to give back things I know but I am still learning to put things in terms it will be accepted. The wilderness will not be as accomidating as I am. Open your eyes, ears and mind to the possibilties. This is the strenght of man anywhere.

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    This really isn't a subject that I have thought too much about, but we all do it every day - albeit not necessarily in a wilderness setting. I think that there are several important issues that come into play. Firstly location. There is a reason that the majority of the world's population lives near water. Obviously water is needed to sustain life, but the water can be a great source of food. Without either the long term part becomes more difficult. I also think that if one is able, choosing a more temperate climate would be preferable. Longer growing seasons mean more food as well. This isn't to say that these things are a must, but rather things that for a sustainable existence will make life easier (not sure if that is the right word). A more temperate climate also means that more of your time can be devoted to things other than staying warm. If this is not a solo journey, then division of labor certainly is an important aspect of long term sustainability.

    Skills are certainly an important part of the equation. Fishing, hunting, making cordage, butchering, tanning, building, problem solving, first aid knowledge and skill, sewing, gardening, using hand tools (shovel, saw, axe, hammer, brace, draw knife, etc.), building, delivering a baby, how to swim, cooking, preserving food...... The list could be endless, and obviously the more you know, the (using that word again) easier life will be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjj View Post
    At first, I thought this thread was about pre-planning for long-term wilderness existing which to me equates to identifying/locating a place or two with the right resources and at least construct a shelter to process/store supplies for difficult times. Then I thought the thread turned towards pre-planning for an indefinite walk-about averaging 10 miles per day and collecting food while moving. I believe the walk-about concept is the current topic.

    The OP lives in a location that is as abundant with animals/fish/plants within a 10-20 mile radius as the average location in South Central. Instead of a 60 day walk-about, a better first step may be to first practice daily foraging/havesting using current dwelling as a home-base. Each morning, pass up the old coffee and simmering pot of beans, and instead put on the daypack and grab the new rifle and go about the task of provding for that days calories. Extend to a couple days out if desired. Valuable knowledged of local resources would be gained and I suspect any weight loss goals would be quickly achieved.
    Yes, that is a good first step. And oddly enough just yesterday, before coffee, I found 5 nice fresh goose eggs.

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    Any man with brave enough to take five eggs from the killer attack geese can last indefinitely with nothing more than a song.

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    I presented my questions, observations and suggestion in a matter of fact notion. SD, you seem to ask questions that you already have a set answer to and not happy when someone questions your decisions.

    I plan my outings very carfully and take due dilligence in those plans. I do not under gun, under knife or under plan an event. To do so is reckless and dangerous, not just to you, but those around you that care for and about you.

    I admire your tenasity and fortitude, but I do disagree with many of your appearant pre-made decisions on this adventure.

    To each their own......I will however refrain from responding anymore to vague and hidden meaning posts, especially ones where you already know the dang answer.

    If you honestly do not want observation and suggestions, then why ask for them in such a errant manner?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    OK, I chose each word of the thread title carefully. The thread is NOT a debate as to whether it is possible. We know it is possible (It was done for hundreds of years). What I request is what would it really be like, what would really be needed.....?

    As a starting point for departure this post from another thread by Alaskan Survivalist serves as a start:

    "There are 3 principals or combination to meet your needs and achieve this, what you can carry, what you can make or find and knowing what you can live without. The more you can carry the less you will need to find, make or live without. The more you can make or find the less you have to carry or live without. The more you can live without the less you need to carry, find or make. This will vary from one individual to the next. Finding that balance is the challenge".

    Going back to the original question..."what would it really be like"....there are just so many variables according to individuals and location- and how long of a time we're talking. . But for me, it would be a blast. I would love to give it a try...if i could come back to my normal life and still have a wife, and well-adjusted young son who both loved me,and there were no bill/debt collectors hounding me I'd do it in a heart-beat.
    I have spent lots of time living in wild places- in tipi's, a yurt, a tent a cabin I built- you name it I've pretty much lived in it through all seasons. I'd like to try to live like this for a year...that is a relatively short time, but long enough to really due the test and see what its really like. I think for me, it would be some really hard times, followed by some really high times. In this area, i would live really well in the summer and fall, then live off lots of Elk, fish, and porcupine in the winter....I have a pretty good idea of what it would be like for a year...beyond that, I dont know...I am willing to give it a try if you guys will raise the money to pay for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPGreco View Post
    I'm sure it can be done, even in today's age. To the extent you want to do it, you could live quite comfortably.

    It depends on how you want to live. If its an area you can haul stuff into, but still be far away from people or if its truly a wilderness.
    I believe I answered honestly in my first post. Without more parameters, its hard to say how it would be to live in the wilderness. However, if your plan is to constantly wander, then it is survival. If you are wandering, even with a specific location to get to in so many days time, you are relying on what you can find. I consider that surviving, not living. However, if your goal is to up and leave society all together and live on your own terms in the wilderness on your own plot of 100 acres, then it can be done. You would be like any number of groups of people from history through modern times. Early American homesteaders would be the best analogy I can think of. You would strike out, find a location, build a life (which includes homesteading, raising livestock, gardening, etc, etc, etc). That would be living since you have taken more direct control of your situation and not relying on what you find or stumble upon, but rather what you can grow and raise. You have a definite place to go in inclement weather, etc, etc, etc. At least thats my opinion on what a long term stay in the wilds is. If you have a different opinion or plan on the matter, then thats why my view would be in conflict.

    Following a herd is also not wandering in my opinion, it is migrating, with a food source that you follow. Wander has a pointless or mindless overture to it in my opinion.

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    Do you notice only one person felt that they could do it.......AS IT WAS LAID OUT. Everyone wants to change it because it does not make sense.

    I'll endeavor to make this simple, And Change the 10 mile requirement to 5 miles.

    1). You must move (5) Five miles every day on average or you will be killed. Note: you could do 10 miles one day and none the next day. The point is you have to keep moving, You can't build a homestead, or nice shelter.

    2). You will have to get your food from the environment.

    3). The "WHY" is not important, if you need a why.......you are being hunted and wanted dead or alive. The Why does not matter.

    4). I guess in theory you could loop around to an earlier campsite and improve it, but you must move 5 miles the next day.

    OK, pretend there is a million dollar prize to the first person in American to do this, having started after April 10'th 2011 Plus you get to be a real hero, and write a book about the adventure.

    I find it interesting that people want to change the original post because it does not make sense. Only Dogman was willing to accept the challenge unaltered.

    I could NOT do it. Not for one year. Maybe I could do it for 6 months......Maybe. Mostly what I am looking for is a valid argument that the procurement of food would be the key to success or death.

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    My bad I guess. I used posts 1 & 3 to answer. Tried not to change anything.
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    What you're talking about is what I call "wilderness living" rather than "survival". Best example I know of is Dick Proenekke, who went into the Alaskan bush and built a cabin and lived there for some years. It was interesting to me that he took in lots of tools and only one rifle. He had years of experience using his tools to build things, great to own the skills.
    I'd say preparatory to going to the bush to live, you need to get a good education in the building trades and etc. to learn how to make things, then take tools with you to do what you need done.
    Wherefore, let us be thankful that there are still thousands of cool, green nooks beside crystal springs, where the weary soul may hide for a time, away from debts, duns and deviltries, and a while commune with nature in her undress. ~ George W. “Nessmuk” Sears ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    Do you notice only one person felt that they could do it.......AS IT WAS LAID OUT. Everyone wants to change it because it does not make sense.

    I'll endeavor to make this simple, And Change the 10 mile requirement to 5 miles.

    1). You must move (5) Five miles every day on average or you will be killed. Note: you could do 10 miles one day and none the next day. The point is you have to keep moving, You can't build a homestead, or nice shelter.

    2). You will have to get your food from the environment.

    3). The "WHY" is not important, if you need a why.......you are being hunted and wanted dead or alive. The Why does not matter.

    4). I guess in theory you could loop around to an earlier campsite and improve it, but you must move 5 miles the next day.

    OK, pretend there is a million dollar prize to the first person in American to do this, having started after April 10'th 2011 Plus you get to be a real hero, and write a book about the adventure.

    I find it interesting that people want to change the original post because it does not make sense. Only Dogman was willing to accept the challenge unaltered.

    I could NOT do it. Not for one year. Maybe I could do it for 6 months......Maybe. Mostly what I am looking for is a valid argument that the procurement of food would be the key to success or death.
    Well those are very important parameters of the scenario. Your original post just said long term survival in the wilderness and what was needed. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate, but the original post was answered. You need the basic skills of survival and the ability to leave society. Living would be made easier if you homesteaded, which would require focus on certain skills. However, constant moving has its own set of skills needed. You don't need to know how to garden or raise animals or build complex structures. You need to know how to forage, hunt, have the physical ability, build small structures, and cover tracks and protect yourself. I mean, yeah, we could list the skills needed, but they wouldn't be very different from the skillsets for surviving a SHTF scenario, just on a longer time line.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdD270 View Post
    What you're talking about is what I call "wilderness living" rather than "survival". Best example I know of is Dick Proenekke, who went into the Alaskan bush and built a cabin and lived there for some years. It was interesting to me that he took in lots of tools and only one rifle. He had years of experience using his tools to build things, great to own the skills.
    I'd say preparatory to going to the bush to live, you need to get a good education in the building trades and etc. to learn how to make things, then take tools with you to do what you need done.
    I knew Dick and I Homesteaded on Lake Clark about 40 miles from him. BUT That is NOT what this is. It is Not Homesteading, it is being on the move, and subsisting on the environment for food.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    OK, I chose each word of the thread title carefully. The thread is NOT a debate as to whether it is possible. We know it is possible (It was done for hundreds of years). What I request is what would it really be like, what would really be needed.....?

    As a starting point for departure this post from another thread by Alaskan Survivalist serves as a start:

    "There are 3 principals or combination to meet your needs and achieve this, what you can carry, what you can make or find and knowing what you can live without. The more you can carry the less you will need to find, make or live without. The more you can make or find the less you have to carry or live without. The more you can live without the less you need to carry, find or make. This will vary from one individual to the next. Finding that balance is the challenge".
    THIS IS The Original Post...............WHERE Oh' Where is the word "Survival" You guys keep adding stuff, It is not about survival, it is not about building a homestead, or a deluxe camp-site. It is about GOING for a WALK.....WALK five miles per day, eating what you can catch, fish/game or plants.

  20. #40
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    That would be a tough proposition and really dependent upon your knowledge of plants year round. I suppose I could do it in the summer but winter would be just plain tough. Animals do it so I guess I could to. I might not starve to death over the winter but I'll bet I'd be pretty skinny come spring.

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