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Thread: "Intentional".....Pre-planed long-term WILDERNESS Existing.

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    Default "Intentional".....Pre-planed long-term WILDERNESS Existing.

    OK, I chose each word of the thread title carefully. The thread is NOT a debate as to whether it is possible. We know it is possible (It was done for hundreds of years). What I request is what would it really be like, what would really be needed.....?

    As a starting point for departure this post from another thread by Alaskan Survivalist serves as a start:

    "There are 3 principals or combination to meet your needs and achieve this, what you can carry, what you can make or find and knowing what you can live without. The more you can carry the less you will need to find, make or live without. The more you can make or find the less you have to carry or live without. The more you can live without the less you need to carry, find or make. This will vary from one individual to the next. Finding that balance is the challenge".


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    I hate to be a spoiled sport but it's a lot different for surviving in Alaska than it is in Louisiana. Maybe you should narrow the terms.

    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rio-Check-List

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I hate to be a spoiled sport but it's a lot different for surviving in Alaska than it is in Louisiana. Maybe you should narrow the terms.

    http://www.wilderness-survival.net/f...rio-Check-List
    NO.....I don't want this to be a scenario thread. I request that it be more: We can do it, and "ONE" important factor will be.....?????? For example: I feel strongly that access to food like fish (Year around access to fish) is one important factor. Think of it in terms of training a 10 year old for 12 years, till he/she was 22 years old. What skills would then need....? And they would be different of different locations, yes.
    Patience would be universal, ability to endure pain and hardship would be universal. Need for good eyesight and strong body would be universal.

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    I would think at least rudimentary medical skills.

    Basic hand tool skills.
    .45 ACP Because shooting twice is silly... The avatar says it all,.45 because there isn't a.46

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTs6a...eature=related

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    I'm sure it can be done, even in today's age. To the extent you want to do it, you could live quite comfortably.

    It depends on how you want to live. If its an area you can haul stuff into, but still be far away from people or if its truly a wilderness.

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    that 12 year old kid would need to be taught how to adapt, improvise and overcome, more of a mindset. Sadly it would be easier to teach that to a kid than a adult.

    there would be so much to learn. I would think learning to store surpluses would be very important. This skill would help level out the ups and downs of the seasons.

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    I look at just like living where and how I live. I was not sure that I could do it, at 60'ish. I don't have to live how I do, but it is nice to know that I can. I see the next step as 60 days (May & June) Alaska living alone on the move (about 10 miles per day) living off the fish and game.

    Then the next step would be 180 Days (April 12 to October 12'th). I am very clear that I would die if I went much beyond the 180 days described, mostly because of lack of food, extreme cold, and lacking the mental endurance at this point in my life.
    Last edited by Sourdough; 03-21-2011 at 09:53 PM.

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    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    We must conclude that environment is a deciding factor. A more temperate zone would be easier to live in year round as would a tropical environment. Less calories expended to just stay warm. Game/fish year round and the same with plant life.
    I know what hunts you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SARKY View Post
    We must conclude that environment is a deciding factor. A more temperate zone would be easier to live in year round as would a tropical environment. Less calories expended to just stay warm. Game/fish year round and the same with plant life.
    Yes, I agree 100%.........This seems so obvious to us, but it seems many adults, and nearly all sub-adults do not consider this key fact. Most obsess about the proper equipment, but without an abundant food source the best planned equipment and training is mute.

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    Well, the truth is many adults and nearly all sub-adults wouldn't even consider spending a week outdoors. So they have no reason to consider that or anything else that goes with it.

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    Discipline more than gear will be needed. Mindset, rather then a gadget. A set standard of daily chores and adjusts that even one day gone without will set you back. Daily water, daily sustanance, daily meat and food maintenance, ability to mend clothes, make tools, apply medical methods, personal hygene, personal protection to include long distance, Animal CQB, abilility to use all parts of an animal and as well as plants. Even knowing how to properly crap in the wilderness can be a deciding factor in your success. Considerations in portage and/or water navigation may be needed.

    It is NOT impossible by any means. Small or seemingly small set backs can be your death in a moments notice. I would wonder what your fall back or back up plans are. What are your considerations to serious medical issues?

    You ask what would it be like....I suggest you read Jim Bridgers mem as well as Jedidiah Smiths chronicals.... they really tell what it is like on a daily basis in long term stays in the wilderness.

    http://xroads.virginia.edu/~hyper/hn...n/jimbrid.html

    SD... before you head out, please set in your will that I get one of your .375 H&H or a .458 Mags I am sure Scott will take the outhouse LOLOLOL

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    Does it come with a gun ?

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    Well I don't consider long term wilderness survival meaning constant movement and always having just what you carry.

    Think about the Homesteaders of early America. Technically, that was wilderness survival. They went to unsettled areas and built a home and survived. That was a wilderness, and they survived. Look at Siberia. There are nomadic tribes that survive. Yes, it can be done without question. I agree that the single most important aspect would be mental fortitude. Being able to leave it all behind. If you can't leave it, all the skill in the world won't matter because you will be back.

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    Scott, no gun, but you do need to make an out house door for it LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPGreco View Post

    I agree that the single most important aspect would be mental fortitude. .
    I respectfully disagree, access to food is the single most important aspect. By food I mean small animals (Fish, Groundhogs, Otters, Beaver, Etc.).

    Remember this is not Bug'Out. This is a self-supporting LOOOOONG walk'about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SARKY View Post
    We must conclude that environment is a deciding factor. A more temperate zone would be easier to live in year round as would a tropical environment. Less calories expended to just stay warm. Game/fish year round and the same with plant life.
    I don't know what to think about the environment as a major factor. Every area would have it's own unique challenges. Take the tropics for example, some of the parasites are horrid. Like that one that comes out the ankle and to cure it you pull out a inch a day and cut it off, after several weeks it's gone. Then there's poisonous critters, disease and such. I feel it's all in preparation and gaining skills for the area a guy is apt to be in. A Eskimo in the Sahara has about as much chance of making it as a Bedouin in the arctic. There has to be some preparation in advance for any chance of success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    I respectfully disagree, access to food is the single most important aspect. By food I mean small animals (Fish, Groundhogs, Otters, Beaver, Etc.).

    Remember this is not Bug'Out. This is a self-supporting LOOOOONG walk'about.
    I have mixed emotions on this (which is more important) if you read old journals of explorers meeting the Inuit, they often talk about how they would meet a half-starved Inuit band that had not eaten in several days...but was still going about there business of trying to hunt and gather....hoping that they might come across "Blood on the Ice" tomorrow or the next day! Mental fortitude is pretty damned important for those unplanned days of no food in between kills
    The way of the canoe is the way of the wilderness and of a freedom almost forgotten- Sigurd Olson

    Give me winter, give me dogs... you can keep the rest- Knud Rasmussen

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    I will retract the most imporant part, since really, anything can be labeled as such. However, it is the most important INTANGIBLE aspect of long term survival in the wilderness. There are a lot of people in the world with the same skill sets or the same potential, the only difference being mental fortitude that determines success. There are plenty of tails of survival based on nothing more than the will to go on as well.

    I still think it would not remain a walkabout, but that you would hunker down once you found an area that would supply your needs. Even nomadic tribes follow a predictable path, which isn't really a walkabout. I mean, as I've learned from this site, survival isn't something you want to be doing long term. Maybe your first couple of weeks would be more survival, but if it was a planned long term wilderness life, you would be prepared and follow that plan. It may only be semantics, but I believe with a well laid plan, it wouldn't be long term survival, but long term living.

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    I agree JP, mindset is the absolute most important part. With proper mindset, if there is game to be had, then you will get it. If you set out on this adventure in the wrong season or wrong place without first studying it and knowing if game is there then you are FUBAR. But....if game is there, you need the mindset to gather 3200 or more calories a day if you are doing 10 miles a day, with pack and somewhat decent weather. Fish are too lean, otters not enough, decent sized beaver and groundhogs may be just the right size with a fat to protien ratio that will sustain you, but not enough of the essential vitamins for other issues. Will you take a bottle of 60 vitamins with you to suppliment loss of a rounded diet?

    You stated you worded the heading carefully, so by existing, you want to minimally make it through each day? My goal would be to thrive, not just to exist.

    Have you pre-studied weather information for those 60 days? you can get detailed reports on expectations on weather patterns at the weatherchannel.com or via the FAA/TGA. You being a commercial pilot should know how important this issue is. At what aspect ratio will the sun be for those 60 days, what cycle?

    Have you studied the AK DNR for animal populations in the directions you plan on going?

    Since you are moving forward 10 miles a day, trapping is pretty much out.

    Have you considered 2-legged creatures, what are you prepped to do against hostels?

    Have you studied calorie and content for the animals you feel you will be eating? How many of what animal or plant will you need to keep at that 3200 calories per day?

    Your ammo, have you planned on at least 3 rounds a day or more?

    How will you be fishing? trap, net, line, shooting, spearing, noodeling?

    Have you planned on breakage of every item you take and what it will take to replace, repair or make?

    Will you be keeping a log, diary or sketch book of each days events?

    In the thick of all this adventure, what is your fall back plan?

    Who comes to look for you on the 63rd day, or do you have a planned set of contact points scheduled via sat phone or signals left on the ground?

    Major medical: Not first aid, I am talking heart attack, stroke, broken bones, nasty cuts, spragns, animal bites or attacks, hypo/hyper thermia?

    Are you eating wild game daily now, the ones you intend to eat on the adventure to make sure your system will not purge them and cause diariha or other gastro-intenstinal issues, you will be eating them each day, not just once in awhile or on Sundays.

    Do you have an end location planned or just wherever you end up? How ill you return?

    Have you thought about pre-dropped prior to the adventure of small re-supply containers. You will be going 600 miles, maybe one every 150 - 250 miles with a gun spare parts kit, ammo, knife and non parishable foods? Even if no foods, maybe expendable gear?

    These are just some thoughts on some of the things I would be thinking about in such a long term adventure.

    Regards,
    Mike

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    SD, Have you considered a dog? The more you hunt with them the better they get and better company than most people.

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