There is no way around our dependence on oil. Without it 2/3 of the population can not be feed. As it is depleted so shall we if we don't kill ourselves first fighting over it.
There is no way around our dependence on oil. Without it 2/3 of the population can not be feed. As it is depleted so shall we if we don't kill ourselves first fighting over it.
Well, actually there is a way around our dependence on oil. At least to a very large degree. We could easily convert our transportation to natural gas, of which about 90% is produced right here in the U.S. Only about half (2009 numbers) of crude oil is imported. So those things that can't be made by switching to something other than crude could still be made if our transportation sector ran primarily on NG. Things like pharmaceuticals, for example. Russia actually produces more crude than Saudi Arabia and Saudi Arabia only produces about 3% more crude than we do.
Gasoline makes up a little over 19% of what crude is used for in the U.S., Diesel about 10%.
Here's a fun fact. Did you know a barrel of crude oil is 44 gallons? It's true.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energy.c...il_home-basics
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
Did you know that it was John R that came up with the 44 gallon standard?
I don't buy it either Rick. My Grandfather worked for sun gas through the 60's into the 90"s. He had a regular ole' 80' something GMC truck that could traverse the nation without stopping for gas. It ran on propane. It is pathetic that the permit made it cost prohibitive. A simple bolt on conversion he did himself. A brand new Hyster forklift has the same motor as a S10 pickup and runs for literally a week on a small cylinder of natural gas and burns clean enough to run indoors. We need to get off our duffs and do it!
Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...
"Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS
"How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson
Money is what's stopping us. As long as the petroleum industry makes money on crude they have no reason to convert. I don't like it but I certainly understand their reasoning.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
I thought it was Winnie. I just figured the conversion to gallons messed her up.Originally Posted by randyt
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
I seriously doubt it is cost prohibitive now for the permit. I will check into it. Grandpa's truck is sitting there ready to do it. The tank is in his backyard. He was the best man I ever knew, he has since passed on to the glory land. Something inside me is saying do this.
Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...
"Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS
"How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson
Cowboy,
are you talking compressed natural gas or propane? My family has run lots of equipment on propane. Trucks, tractors, sawmills. however propane is a product of the oil industry.
I am pretty sure it was propane. I'll have to get back to you to be 100% on that.
Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...
"Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS
"How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson
Wouldn't the delivery system be the same either way? Pa Pa had switch he mounted under the steering column. It'd act up when he changed over but only for a second. He ran gas or propane. This ain't rocket science you feed the air pump a combustible and controll the flow.
Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...
"Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS
"How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson
the main difference is with compressed natural gas the tank has to be filled by compression in order to obtain enough btus to be practical. Propane has more btus per cubic foot and is easier to pump and does not require the high compression in order to fill a tank.
I agree that is why Pa Pa had an LP tank in the bed of the truck... It looks like we're pissing up a rope. I did a quick search and it is on the consumer to do this it is out there. Here ya go!
http://truckaccessoryguide.com/2008/...pickup-trucks/
Keep in mind the problem may be extremely complicated, though the "Fix" is often simple...
"Teaching a child to fish is the "original" introduction to all that is wild." CS
"How can you tell a story that has no end?" Doc Carlson
I've thought about converting to compressed natural gas but the keeping track of the road tax seemed like a big PIA. I have enough tax to keep track of.
The ways we have traditionally gotten there is disease, famine and war (not necessarily in that order.) We can sustain 6.9 billion fine now with the current warm climate and low fuel costs. Like I said, if oil were to double in price 2/3rds of the world population would starve to death. Of course there would be wars to decide which 2/3rds that would be. This is hard for Americans to imagine as we spend less than 10% (on average) of our income on food, however populous countries like India spend over 53% of their income on food. Food costs increase directly proportional with the price of oil. Do the math. Other things which might trigger such a reduction in world population might be a geological event (flood basalt, super volcano, etc.), an astrological event, or simply a cyclical cooling of the earth, such as we experienced during the "little ice age" after the middle ages. Pandemics would certainly follow such global calamities if history is any indication of future events.
Developed countries might decide to limit population size by choice, however it's doubtful that under-developed countries (with agrarian cultures) would do this through free will. Anything other than free choice would be unthinkable for us, however compulsory population control is being practiced today by 1.2 billion communist Chinese.
Chip
I have a hard time believing that its either oil or nothing. Before oil, people used steam and before that, horses. Water and wind powered machinery before electricity and the world got by. Yeah, there are lots more people here then there was 150 years ago but there are many advancements in technology that will replace fossil fuel when oil prices become high enough for a substitute to be profitable.
As long as government doesnt put a complete strangle hold on capitalism, a substitute that is effecient, reliable and sustainable will come along before 2/3 of the planet die....IMO
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
I don't have any insider information but I'd bet Detroit (Japan, too) has a long range plan in place. After all, it costs money to retool and they are going to lean toward whatever makes them the most money be that electric or fuel cell or something else.
As to populations being sustainable. You know folks are working on new food crops, right? GA foods will increase yields substantially and will continue to feed us for years to come. Like it or not it's one answer. Removing land from the land bank and putting it into production another and NOT moving forward with bio-fuel but using that grain for food yet another. So there are a number of answers available to continue feeding a growing population. Of course, if anyone wants to help with the problem I guess they could off themselves right now. No? No takers?
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
I can't offer this as proof but as another reason to believe humanity is at a tipping point. One of the biggest catalists behind the unrest in Egypt and the middleeast is food prices. As places like China and India become more developed the demand for more goods increases, food being a primary demand. This creates inflation in food prices that hit hard in highly populated but underdeveloped areas like Africa and the Middleeast. People will cope with oppresion as long as they are well feed but when the cleptocracies create hunger then folks riot. Even in the US we are seeing the labor unrest in WI get bitter. There are those who will stir the pot and things here could get very bad.Add the folks who have been out of work for over a year and they could become desperate enough to be manipulated by political aggitators. Not sure how the disaster in Japan will effect us but it could be bad.
Don
So, mankind has been at the tipping point for just about ever, then? The world has faced starvation for a long time even developed countries. The Egyptian rulers lost power in the Old Kingdom because of famine. People were eating their children! That was in BCE over 2000 years ago. Every 100 year period has horrible examples of famine and we are still around.
As for labor unrest, you should have been around when the unions were first forming. Now THAT was labor unrest.
Why doesn't anyone believe this stuff has happened over and over and over? It's just a matter of perspective. It's happening to us. That's the only difference.
Tracks Across the High Plains...Death on the Bombay Line...A Touch of Death and Mayhem...Dead Rock...The Griswald Mine Boys...All On Amazon Books.
The world didn't have the huge population it has now or huge metropolitan areas and nuclear weapons. Now the powers that be in the universe may just deside to cull the herd and there will be intense suffering for a period of years and we'll learn to cope with less and go back to using old technologies we used before and everything will be hunky dory. But I can't buy the argument that now is the same as the past, too much has changed.
Don
Because no one does the research Rick. The one thing about the internet generation is once some sky-is-falling blog gets written it gets regurgitated in a bizarre form of Telephone Game until half the population thinks it's true. I have a not so vague feeling this is also used as a not-so-random means of deflection.
I occasionally get these scare feelings but do some back checking and figure, like you do, that someone doesn't have all their facts straight.
The planet can't sustain continued population growth though. Relying on GMO for additional food? That's a potential time bomb if some of that stuff gets out into the wild. Plants are promiscuous things. You have GMO on the one hand and greedy seedsmen with their Terminator crops that set seed for food but not for planting. While the whole global climate change may be based on junk science, at least in part, there is at least a new focus on other energy sources. Electric cars kill me though. Where does the electricity come from? Coal plants? Hydro? Nuclear? You are trading one energy source into another that also has dubious growth potential.
There is a general longing in the wilderness community to go back to the old ways. There is no need to go all the way back. Times were hard in the Old Days, no matter how nostalgic you might think they are. Unless you're living truly off grid or spent some time doing it, you don't appreciate how hard it really is. It doesn't have to be. There just needs to be a modernization of the way we do things.
I think the problems we face today is that we still rely on the Old Ways far too much. Why do we still have road surfaces that fall apart? Why is our main source of power dangling from sticks planted along roadways? Why is the permitting process to use even existing dam locations as sources of hydro power so intricate? Why do people think planting acres and acres of highly reflective solar farms isn't going to be more damaging to environment than the current CO2 load (and why is the focus on CO2 when there are far more active 'greenhouse' gases out there).
Someone mentioned losing power for two week due to a storm. Everyone who proposes to survive more than two weeks should turn off their power from time to time and see what it's like. You may suddenly find you aren't as prepared as you thought. We weren't. But I also found more of a community coming together when it did happen. Neighbors watched out more for each other. Sure there were thieves out stealing unattended generators and unattended gas caches. There will always be that element out there. What boggles my mind more is that some people thought it ok to start a portable generator, then leave it unattended for hours at a time. And yeah, I had to travel 12 miles to get gas at one of the only gas stations in the area that had it's own generator to run the pumps (think about that a minute). You learn to plan ahead a little more about where you are going, what you are doing, how cold your house can actually be that a few extra layers won't solve, what you do when weather is too warm and your freezer starts to melt, what to do when it's too cold and your pipes might freeze if the generator (and it's backup if you have one) goes out for any reason.
Sorry for the rant. Preaching to the choir.
Last edited by LowKey; 03-12-2011 at 09:36 AM.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks