Accelerating events

[BENESSE]

Thank you Crash.

[sushidog]

Don, I completely agree with your assessemnt of current events. Yes, I've lived to see much come and go, however for the very first time in my life I'm beginning to envision the probability of an imminent middle eastern Caliphate, driving the price of oil to unprecidented and un-sustainable levels. Remember that 2/3 of the worlds population will starve to death if food prices only double - and they could easily and quickly rise much higher than that - and that's just the start of our problems. Cut off our oil imports and many will starve right here in the breadbasket of the world. Having survived Katrina, I have a different perspective than most. Never again did I think I would load my rifle with the intent of taking another human life. Never did I think I would be instructing my DW how to use a shotgun to kill Americans on American soil. Things got very bad here - worst than most can imagine. My Nephew, a vet. combat chopper pilot, was flying for Acadian Air Ambulance at the time. He was flying rescue missions into New Orleans day and night - the FAA rule book was thrown out the window - flying off of stims and IV's. Some survivors were throwing babies into his chopper in an attempt to save their young lives (at the expense of their own) while others were insanely firing on the air ambulances, trying to bring them down, forcing my nephew to arm himself in return. I can't begin to write the atrocities I've seen and heard. These sobering events are but a small gentile prelude to what will soon come to pass if oil prices get much higher (assuming this is not due to hyperinflation) which is another very real threat in and of itself.

I guess you guys think I'm a kook, and maybe I am. But if you would have been where I've been and seen what I've seen, you'd probably be one too.

As far as paying off your home, I think that's an excercise in futility. Remember, that you can only keep what you can defend. After Katrina most people moved out of this area causing the property tax base to shrink to a tiny fraction of what it was. The solution the local govt. came up with was to re-assess everyone's home. no one voted on a property tax increase, yet almost everyone's property tax skyrocketed. Mine went up over 1,000% - no, that's not a misprint. What's to stop them from raising it another 1,000% whenever they want to. The moral of the story: The govt. will steal your property whenever they want and there's not a darn thing you can do about it - if you don't want to end up in jail or worse. Well there's a lot more I can say on the subject, but I'll probably end up in trouble. Sometimes it's best to play your cards close to your chest. We all know these boards are actively monitored to search for "domestic terrorist" activities - meaning anyone who disagrees with the current administration. No, this is not the first administration who's done it, however that doesn't make it any less dangerous today then when patriotic Americans of foreign descent were imprisoned for years without benefit of trial in internment camps. Be advised - be very careful what you say here or anywhere online - even in socalled "private communications."

You can stockpile what you can carry or cache, however I think it's too late for investing in gold and silver, though a bag of junk silver might be useful, if you don't think things will get too bad. I'm more of the opinion that it's beans and bullets time. Our lives may soon depend on our ability to shoot, move and communicate. Absorb as much knowledge and learn as many basic skills as you can right now, because I believe that our ability to gather like this and share thoughts and info will soon be coming to an end, based on the President's new found power to shut down the Internet in an unspecified "national emergency" - for our own safety of course.

Chip

[BENESSE]

As far as paying off your home, I think that's an excercise in futility. Remember, that you can only keep what you can defend.
Chip

Also remember that you can only keep what you've paid for. You loose your job, you get hurt or sick, you're behind a house payment or two, and you're out on your behind. You gotta survive every day challenges before you survive a middle eastern Caliphate, IMHO.

[Winnie]

I find it hard to get riled up about this sort of thing. Rick said somewhere else that History has shown that these sort of events have happened before and we have survived. The troubling bit at the time may not have been very nice. As for the Inernet being shut down, those of us old enough to remember life pre computers we used pen and paper, telephone, radio, telegraph(yes I'm old enough to remember telegrams) as methods of communication. Yes it's slower, but it just goes to show you don't need the internet and cell phones. News gets around eventually. What's the problem?
The crash of 1929 caused far worse damage and for far longer than what is happening in the middle east today. As I see it, people are very scared of losing the luxuries that makes up much of todays lifestyle. I'm not overly bothered at losing a lot of those luxuries, although I would miss the internet and my washing machine

[sushidog]

Also remember that you can only keep what you've paid for. You loose your job, you get hurt or sick, you're behind a house payment or two, and you're out on your behind. You gotta survive every day challenges before you survive a middle eastern Caliphate, IMHO.

Of course you are correct. I'm certainly not advising anyone to encur or remain in debt. I'm just trying to remind folks that just because your property is paid for, free and clear, that the government may take it from you anyway. The day before yesterday I was in bankruptcy court because I'm losing my house due to my DW's unemployment. I can't afford to pay my mortgage, my second mortgage (made to repair my home from the damages of Hurricane Katrina) and the outrageous 1,000% jump in property taxes with only one income. But let say my wife didn't lose her job and I was able to pay off my home and retire with my property completely paid, what's to stop them from raising my property taxes year after year until I can no longer afford to live there? Many farmers have lost their family farms for this exact reason. The tax rates didn't go up, but assessor says my .45 acre rural property (not counting the value of my 40 yr old home) is worth $50,000 (that's over $100,000/acre!) just because it's on a secondary highway. What will you do when they say your land is worth 1 million an acre? How about 10 million an acre? Good luck trying to sell it for anywhere near what they say it's worth! My home was on the market at well below appraised value for over 2 years with not a single, rediculous offer. If they came after my house, they might come after your home next. Yes, it will be easier to pay their $3,000/yr (less than my current property tax), $30,000/yr, $300,000/yr property tax or whatever they decide you owe, if your home is paid for. I'm just saying there will come a point where no one but millionaires will be able to afford to own anything anymore, so they'll force us to all be wards of the socialist State. All I'm saying is be ready because if they can do it to me they can do it to you.

Chip

[BENESSE]

Sushidog, I'm real sorry you're in that predicament. There but for the grace of God, go I...or anyone for that matter.
I wish you the best of luck and a speedy reversal of fortune, for that happens too.

[SARKY]

I have to agree, it's beans and bullets time. The greed and corruption of our elected (sic) officials and the absolute greed of the civil servants is disgusting. Quite frankly, if the states go under because of their greed, I don't care if they starve. When they finally wake up maybe then they will realize it was their union bosses that put them in this position.

[Rick]

I think you've extrapolated some things into your scenario out of frustration. Rising taxes should have been a foregone conclusion for that area. Sarky, my friend, you can call it greed if you wish but let's take a look at the reality of the New Orleans area. It encountered one of the worst natural disasters ever and the communities sustained untold damage to public utilities and public property. Damage that had to be repaired and paid for. The economic down turn means less federal and state dollars are flowing into communities. The fact that taxes increased is pretty understandable.

Signed contracts, union or otherwise, have to be honored or renegotiated. That's a legal requirement. I suppose if municipalities had some crystal ball then they would have not signed them or negotiated something much lower but no one did and the problem is now universal.

Sushi - I'm not making any sort of judgment call on your situation so please don't read one into it. You did not have a crystal ball either so any one of us may have made the very same decisions and found ourselves in a similar situation. I'm only pointing out to others what I've posted before and that's the fact that taxes are going to rise in order to bail out states and the federal government from the terrible debt we've incurred. The only questions are when and how much.

One thing that should be a consideration in your post is the fact that those who have purchased land as a fall back could very well lose it under the right of eminent domain. It's not common but if it happens to you then it really doesn't matter how common it is. So it's something to think about when you select your land for purchase. Could come utility company or gas line company want this land for a substation at some point in time. Just something to think about.

I do hope you get through this as painlessly as possible and better skies are ahead for you.

[sushidog]

Thanks Benesse and Rick for your understanding. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, and yes we all color our perceptions of reality based on our own personal experience. How can one not alter one's threat assessment after watching (and participating in) the near complete destruction and societal collapse of one's home town? That said, I feel good about my future, as I trust God knows what's best for me, regardless what I might think about His plan. I've decided a full time mobile lifestyle is the option I'm being steered towards. It may be my best survival option. As weaponry and surveillance equipment advances beyond the civilian's ability to mount a direct, organized defense, I believe going underground and maintaining a low profile may be our best chance of surviving an unknown future sociatal change - be it a revolution or socialist/communist/muslim (whatever) takeover of our country. True the chance of such an event taking place in the near future may seem exceedingly low to most. However, recent global events are nudging the unthinkable into our radar of remote possibilities one needs to seriously consider and prepare for. The perfect time for such an event to happen would seem to be after a natural disaster or fuel shortage triggered food shortage "stressing the system." They would only need to wait with open arms as the bulk of the unprepared and terrified masses run to these waiting dictators for safety and to avoid certain mass starvation. I guarantee that a " messiah" will materialize to rescue us at a terrible price.

Chip

[Rick]

You do know this stuff has happened from time immemorial, right? Countries in the third world are over thrown all the time. Look at a map from 10 years ago. You won't even find some of the those countries today because the name has changed. What would you have thought during the toppling of a President or Vice President or during the Cuban Missile Crisis or Communist witch hunt of the 50s? How about WWII or the Depression or WWI? Or any event in any decade since forever? I'm serious, it's only a matter of perspective. We didn't live that stuff so only today's stuff is the real deal. But it was real for my parents and my grand parents. Whatever happened to Y2K? Did I ever tell you what's behind the Hale Bopp comet?

[beetlejuicex3]

I've never been an alarmist or survival guy (before now). I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But I went without power for 2 weeks just from an ice storm. It wasn't pretty.

The financial system nearly fell entirely apart 2 years ago and is teetering at best. We were 45 minutes away from Marshall law when Bush was in office over concerns there was going to be a run on banks and money market funds. 45 minutes from marshall law...

A friend of mine knows a trader at JP Morgan. The trader admits it is well known that many times more silver is traded in notes and futures in London everyday than actual silver exists. If the paper ever got called there would be huge losses and the price of silver would sky-rocket. This is just one example of the smoke and mirrors financial system we live in. The more I learn, the more concerned I get. Then I look at younger generations - resilient, hopeful, inspired, adaptable, ready for challenges.

I think we'll be alright in the end but there is much more pain to come, imo. As we are seeing today, even one natural disaster could overload the system.

[Rick]

I'd like to see a source on the 45 minutes to marshal law if you have one.

You trader friend is correct for the moment but it hasn't always been that way with silver. There is a very unique situation that silver is currently undergoing. It's called backwardation, which simply means that current prices are higher than future prices are projected to be be. It has to do with supply and demand with demand being very high and supply being low. As supply catches up then silver futures will stabilize back to normal. It's really no big deal but it is pretty rare. The odds of everyone cashing in at the same time probably just as rare.

[Trabitha]

Agreed...that 45 min. away from marshall law under Bush would have been front page worthy, given his "popularity". I don't remember hearing anything at all.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Ignoring the urgency of our problems is why they have grown to levels beyond our control. We have already failed collectively to face up to the challenges and it is too late now. If anything is to be done it will be up to the indivivdual and those efforts will not be enough to save everybody. You must fend for yourself. There will be more suffering and death at increasing levels. Some will see it coming, some won't.

[Rick]

Too late for what? To fix it? Bzzzzt. Wrong answer. We can continue to pay the interest on the debt through 2020. If we don't get it fixed by then we will have problems but we have time if we get started on it. I have a spare pair of rose colored glasses I'll lend you.

Ohio and Wisconsin have already started by giving notice to public employees that their negotiations are now limited. Indiana is on the verge and will probably pass a similar law in the next week or so. It's going to be painful for all of us but it can still be fixed.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Too little, too late. Major changes must be made too the entire structure of civilization. Local economies not global ones, birth control is better than famine and war to bring population in balance with sustainability, conservation is the most immediate and effective way to deal with energy crisis, and the list could go on and on. Civilization has peaked and is on a downhill slide. All that is left fighting over what remains.

We are in collapse NOW!

[Trabitha]

...I'm sorry...but did you just imply that it's better to force women NOT to have children rather than worry about feeding them?
I kind of stopped reading after that.
It's funny how most men cringe about having their "manhood" snipped...but then there are so many more that are all too eager to back women popping a pill to keep them from having children.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

...I'm sorry...but did you just imply that it's better to force women NOT to have children rather than worry about feeding them?
I kind of stopped reading after that.
It's funny how most men cringe about having their "manhood" snipped...but then there are so many more that are all too eager to back women popping a pill to keep them from having children.

I made no such distinction. Over population period. It will not change and no one will step up to take responsibilty. Male or female.

[Rick]

Can you offer up some reasoning to show why we are in collapse?

[crashdive123]

AS - the current population of the planet is about 6.9 billion. Why are current levels unsustainable? What level do you think it should be at? Why? How do you propose we get there?