Rethinking the "Survival Firearm" For Alaska (Yes, one more time)

[Sourdough]

One of the problems for Alaska is the Damn BEARS. For me even in a full'out E&E I would expect more problems from Bears than Humans. And starvation would be a even greater danger than the Bears. So my quest has been to find a single firearm, not a rifle and meat'getter pistol combo, but one single firearm, that is light, short, uses small compact cartridges. Versatile enough for food gathering, and bear & moose attacks.

So I am considering (For Me, not selling the idea) the Ruger 77/44 Bolt Action w/4 round magazine. Yes it would suck in a gunfight but I see that for me as behind #1 food procurement, #2 bear & moose protection, #3 ease of carry (light and short) #4 smallish cartridge, and finally #5 defense from humans.

The .44 Magnum could have 320 hard cast loads for walk'around & Moose and Bear harvest or defense. CCI shotshells for birds on the wing. And mostly carry .44 special "cowboy" loads for general food procurement. The Ruger 77/44 weighs 5.25 pounds and is 38.5 inches long. With a 1.5 to 5X Leupold with quick release rings (the scope and rings would not live on the firearm but in the pack) the .44 Magnum w/pointed bullets would be effective to about 200 yards for caribou, bear, moose & if necessary human targets. http://ruger.com/products/rotaryMaga...eets/7408.html

[Winter]

I'm curious as to the bolt action selection over a lever action .44 mag?

[Sourdough]

I'm curious as to the bolt action selection over a lever action .44 mag?

I like the rotary magazine, and the integral scope rings. But I have always liked Bolt Actions for their ease of field stripping. Which is my main issue with lever actions, they are not inclined to field stripping.

[Winter]

Ahhh, makes sense.

[Sourdough]

77/44 review: http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-77-44.htm

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Seriously, if it were me.... I would go with a lever action in .300 Savage (Model 99 or 1899) or .45-70 (Winchester, Marlin and Henry)...and if you need to sub caliber down for other game, use a sub cal insert...... mcace.com for the inserts and ACE is in Alaska.

You are in BIG bear country, not just Black Bear but Kodiak and Grizz (black bear, .44mag loaded up is ok) and I have had customers tell me in horror how their .44mag (out of almost any rifle/pistol) barely even pissed off a Brown Bear regardless of ammo used, loaded up or off the shelf. Granted the bear may die later, but that does not help you in the moment.

I really like Ruger .44 products, they are great........but where you are at you have to think LARGE. Yes, .44 is large, but basically too small for YOUR intended purpose. I just tend to be a careful gun.

This only in my humble opinion............... bows and smiles..... the below info is from handloads.com

44 Magnum, 310 gr
Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source
LFP 23.0 gr h-110 1,710 fps 1.7" Win LP guest
4.5" groups @ 100 yards out of marlin 1894,these gas checked bullets poured from lee moulds.

Email author: paparoy523
See all of paparoy523's loads
LBT-WFN 18.0 gr H-4227 Unknown crimp" Fed LPM guest
This is an accurate and extremely deadly large deer load (and God only knows what else)in a M-94 Winchester, and it is amazingly quiet. It’s a grain or so under maximum according to Lyman, even further below according to Hodgdon! It compresses the Oregon Trail, True Shot bullet lightly. I exited one through both shoulders of a big Mulie buck at 50 yards as if he were made out of luke-warm butter. Accurate enough to hit apples at 100 yards. No leading. Recoil in the rifle is in the tolerance range of Brownie Scouts, (or not quite an alley-cat on the animal scale!)

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300 Savage, 180 gr
Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source
FS 38.8 gr Win 748 2,350 fps Winchester
Suggested starting load: 34.9 gr

Pressure: 45,600 PSI


SP 40.0 gr Win 748 2,375 fps Winchester
Suggested starting load: 36.0 gr

Pressure: 43,000 CUP


SP 44.5 gr Win 760 2,410 fps Winchester
Suggested starting load: 40.1 gr

Pressure: 41,000 CUP


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45-70, 350 gr
Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source
JSP 60.0 gr Accurate AA2520 2,000 fps 2.550" Win LR guest
JSP from Hornady, very strong load, accurate, and it will kick some. Shot from a Marlin 1895 new model. The brass is once fired PMC, crimped with Lee Crimp die. MAKE SURE that you work up to this load, it is close to max.

Email author: cutshaw3
See all of cutshaw3's loads
LFP 55.0 gr H4198 2,200 fps 2.55" Win LR guest
Great general purpose hunting load that is equal to or slightly better than the Hornady standard load for the new 450 Marlin. I lube my cast bullets with Apache Blue in the grooves then roll then in Lee Liquid Alox for extra protection. I use this in my Marlin 1895SS and in it the recoil is very gentle, (this is relative, if you’ve been shooting nothing but .223’s all your life, then this will feel like it is breaking your shoulder!) My rifle has been lightened up as well by slimming down that massive forstock and even slimming some on the butt stock so they match. It now feels much more like a Winchester 1894, except the balance is still not there due to the short magazine tube, but it is still much improved over the factory original, and the 20 hand rubbed coats of Tung oil on the Wlanut stock looks great!

[klkak]

One of the problems for Alaska is the Damn BEARS. For me even in a full'out E&E I would expect more problems from Bears than Humans. And starvation would be a even greater danger than the Bears. So my quest has been to find a single firearm, not a rifle and meat'getter pistol combo, but one single firearm, that is light, short, uses small compact cartridges. Versatile enough for food gathering, and bear & moose attacks.

So I am considering (For Me, not selling the idea) the Ruger 77/44 Bolt Action w/4 round magazine. Yes it would suck in a gunfight but I see that for me as behind #1 food procurement, #2 bear & moose protection, #3 ease of carry (light and short) #4 smallish cartridge, and finally #5 defense from humans.

The .44 Magnum could have 320 hard cast loads for walk'around & Moose and Bear harvest or defense. CCI shotshells for birds on the wing. And mostly carry .44 special "cowboy" loads for general food procurement. The Ruger 77/44 weighs 5.25 pounds and is 38.5 inches long. With a 1.5 to 5X Leupold with quick release rings (the scope and rings would not live on the firearm but in the pack) the .44 Magnum w/pointed bullets would be effective to about 200 yards for caribou, bear, moose & if necessary human targets. http://ruger.com/products/rotaryMaga...eets/7408.html

I don't know how many times I've almost talked myself into buying a 77/44. You are going to make me spend money and upset my wife!

[Pal334]

I readily admit no experience in bear defense etc. But I guess since you are "voting" with your safety, that is good enough for me. In my experience, 4 hits with the .44 (or almost anything else) certainly will put you in a "good place"in a defense from humans scenario. Many(not all) folks with the high capacity "black guns" seem to want to rely on putting out large volumes (spray and pray) . And as you know, practice, practice comfort with the weapon and confidence are a good part of the game.
I can recall an incident during which a couple of good guys got jumped by bad guys a mile or so away from where I was. We heard the distinctive sound of three AKs being fired in a high volume manner. During the altercation, I heard three seperate and distinct single shots (M16 sounding) . At the last M16 shot, there was no more firing. Moral of the story, the bad guys fired over 100 rounds, good guys three and party was over.

[Winter]

Accuracy is the key to victory,,lol.

I feel pretty confident an AR will stop a bear with a couple well placed shots.

[crashdive123]

Does the rifle also need to withstand the rigors of a "walk about gun" that you talked about a few years ago?

[Sourdough]

Does the rifle also need to withstand the rigors of a "walk about gun" that you talked about a few years ago?

YES, as that would be it's primary application.

[Sourdough]

Accuracy is the key to victory,,lol.

I feel pretty confident an AR will stop a bear with a couple well placed shots.

I fully agree............which is why my walk'about firearm for the last (3) Three years has been a Rock River AR-15 in 6.8 SPC It is fine for defense agenst human and Grizzly bear attack, but they are horrable to carry and heavy, the magazine and hand grip stick out 90* angle. And they are less than perfect for harvesting small birds.

[Sourdough]

I don't know how many times I've almost talked myself into buying a 77/44. You are going to make me spend money and upset my wife!

Kevin: We might be able to cut a deal if we ordered two at the same time. I am going to be selling about 40 firearms, and some dealers want my consignment business.

[Rick]

Looks like somebody found out where all the canoes flip.

[klkak]

Accuracy is the key to victory,,lol.

I feel pretty confident an AR will stop a bear with a couple well placed shots.

The problem is, you rarely get a follow up shot on an attacking bear.

[hunter63]

Is there some reason that you seem to limiting your self to hand gun type cartridges?
Just curious..

[KhonHd]

BTW, they do make a 47/70 hand gun... Just sayin'

[Sourdough]

Is there some reason that you seem to limiting your self to hand gun type cartridges?
Just curious..

My first choice (if not for the grizzly Bears) would be the .22 Magnum. The reason for the handgun cartridges is small and compact, versatile as in 150 gr. .44special loads to shotshells, to 320 gr. Core bond. So Question: what would you'all recommendation be.......? But you "MUST" stay with-in the criteria layed out in the first post.

[OhioGrizzLapp]

Now yer scarrin me deeply SD LOL

[hunter63]

My first choice (if not for the grizzly Bears) would be the .22 Magnum. The reason for the handgun cartridges is small and compact, versatile as in 150 gr. .44special loads to shotshells, to 320 gr. Core bond. So Question: what would you'all recommendation be.......? But you "MUST" stay with-in the criteria layed out in the first post.

OK, like I said I was just curious.

I personally have passed "need" a long time ago, so "want" drives a lot of my reasoning.

I do not have a problem with the quest for the "perfect" system for what ever your needs.

I do like the 77/44 as well, as it's short (works well in my box stand) light, .44 and various configuration of same basic loads wouldn't have magizine and chambering issues with a bolt gun.

Was looking at them serious a while back, then acquired the Rem Model 600 .35 Rem, which fits my needs.

I'll be quiet now.....carry on.