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Thread: Insulin and Anti-biotics.....are there any bushcraft formulas for these?

  1. #21
    reclinite automaton canid's Avatar
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    Never, Never, Never inject any substance which has not been prepared commercially for that intended purpose, or prepared to the same standard, and never do so unless directed by a licensed physician or a person with a comparable level of education in iv drug administration, pharmacology, physiology and pathology.

    drugs to be administered by iv or im injection should be completely aseptic (read: not clean, not sanitized; completely azenic/aseptic). under primitive conditions this would probably entail either heat sterilization (when possible, many compounds will decompose into inert or dangerous compounds under heat, intense uv exposure, etc) or antiseptic chemical treatment which is know in the specific case not to be reactive with the compound in question, not to be toxic, or to have been removed afterwards by chemical means. It should be free of potentially dangerous particulate matter such as organic solids and it should be of known purity and molar concentration and precise measurement. this would entail complicated assay proceedures, probably centrifugal separation or plant/fungal extracts, purification/separation of specific compounds from a solution/mixture, and in many cases (such as mycoantibiotics, use of these as precursors to the synthesis of the actual compound to be produces).

    I am not a physician, nor even a properly trained chemist. This is not medical advice, but an informed opinion that the extraction, purification and synthesis of pharmocologic compounds requires a trained chemist, a properly equipped laboratory and stringent procedural standards to ensure safety. the safe use thereof depends on the supervision, education, experience and training of a person you are trusting your life and wellbeing to.

    in any but the direst of immediate disaster, the field production of drugs without the benefit of a competent lab staff, proper equipment and procedures would be part way to suicidal, and in said emergency, it's going to require more education than some might think.
    Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice - Grey's Law.
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  2. #22
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    Some, but not all, studies show that flax seed or other sources of omega-3 oils can reduce blood glucose levels after a meal by about a quarter (reduced insulin resistance). Lignins in flax may also help. Hemp, Psyllium, Chia, walnuts, and fish (some higher in omega 3 than others) are other sources of Omega 3 though generally not as much. Deficiency of vitamin D is correlated with a fairly substantial increase in the risk of contracting type 2 diabetes but the effect on those who already have diabetes is less clear. 5000IU/day or adequate sunlight. Some may need 10,000IU/day. Preload with several doses of 50,000IU (at 5000IU, it takes several months to replenish the bodies fat stores of Vitamin D). http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about...ndoor-tanning/
    A wilderness diet would be likely to be substantially different from the white trash diet (white flour, white rice, refined sugar, other refined carbs, refined oils, trans-fats, etc.) which tends to be responsible for the high rates of diabetes. Fruit sugar consumption in non-tropical areas would probably be lower. In addition, reduced food (especially junk food) intakes and increased activity may reduce obesity. Note that some survival "food" may be white trash (ration bars, macaroni, crackers, ramen noodles, etc). While it is easier to prevent diabetes than treat it with dietary means alone, some diabetics may be able to survive. But I would try to stockpile as much insulin as possible.

    There are some indications that reasonable levels of Vitamin D may increase innate immunity including to influenza, MRSA/staph, and sepsis. This may increase your chances of survival when antibiotics are not available However, unlike the UVB radiation in sunlight which produces vitamin D, UVA radiation may reduce inate immunity and increase susceptibility to MRSA:
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/healt...immunity/mrsa/
    http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/news-...an-antibiotic/

    50,000IU supplements every 10 days would be more portable than 5,000IU/day. At least one study experimented with single doses of 600,000IU (two to four months worth) when daily doses weren't practical, which suggests you could carry avoid packing for limited duration bugouts by carrying it in your fat cells. Recommended dose is proportional to body weight. Current recommendations are to test blood levels when taking real doses of Vitamin D (to prevent overdose or underdose) but no one taking up to 10,000IU/day had problematic blood levels and 10,000IU-20,000IU per day is the normal body production with adequate sunlight (as opposed to the ridiculously low RDA of 600IU/day which is barely enough to prevent Rickets).
    In a survival situation, I would probably take 10,000IU/day especially when there was inadequate sun exposure or where there were physical injuries or exposure to trauma cases or crowded shelters where MRSA might be an issue. Ok, I might actually take 20,000IU/day (plus front load) in extreme conditions but I have had my blood levels measured.

    Disease incidence prevention chart for Vitamin D:
    http://www.grassrootshealth.net/medi...art_032310.pdf
    There is also a 72% reduction in falls with adequate vitamin D which could be an advantage in survival situations.

    A small amount of Vitamin A may be helpful with vitamin D but Vitamin A can also counteract effects of vitamin D. Calcium, magnesium, Vitamin K, Zinc, and Boron are cofactors. A multivitamin could provide those.

    Long term supplies of vitamin D may not be available if the SHTF but one can stockpile a reasonable amount without a doctors prescription and sunlight can be an alternate source (though you will need a fair amount in the summer to see you through the winter).

    As a last resort, some veterinary meds can be used:
    http://www.endtimesreport.com/vetmed.html

    Stumbled on this ebook: Where there is no doctor:
    http://www.hesperian.org/10411911.php
    Print copies on amazon. Also where there is no dentist and some other books.

    I am not a doctor.

  3. #23
    Senior Member SARKY's Avatar
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    Here is a heads up for all of you. I found a US Air Force study done on meds. It seems that the USAF was coming up on the expiration date of a large quantity of their meds and it would have cost them millions to replace them. The study found that almost all dry (powdered not liquid) meds. were still potent 9 years after the manufacturers expiration date provided they weren't exposed to extreme temps. Some of them lost a portion of their potency but all were still viable.
    I know what hunts you.

  4. #24
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    Default medication expiration dates

    Testing was done by FDA for DOD: FDA shelf life extension program.
    https://slep.dmsbfda.army.mil/slep/s...r_JAN_2006.doc
    They are very secretive about the specific drugs tested and the results but some info leaks out in this document.

    It is important to note that products tested under this program are maintained under tightly managed, controlled conditions at a limited number of locations. Extrapolation of these data to drugs stored by others would be inappropriate. Storage conditions may vary widely across the population and SLEP data are not generalizable unless storage conditions are identical and verifiable. Even within the SLEP, products known to have been stored under adverse conditions (i.e., high temperature or low temperatures) by SLEP Participates are excluded from the program, unless they are marked and tested separately from “normal” stocks.
    Individual prescriptions, i.e. those which have been stored by individuals or opened are not considered. Many drugs are disqualified from testing because they are likely to fail and the number of drugs being tested has reduced to 13. And these extensions are based on testing actual samples from each of the drug lots and do not apply to other lots of the same drug stored in a different warehouse. SLEP does not apply to small lot sizes in local pharmacies; in addition, drugs there may be repackaged from open bottles or dispensing machines and exposed to air and thus is no longer in the unopened shelf life phase. Also, the program primarily applies to exotic drugs (such as antidotes for biological warfare agents) that do not have value in the commercial market and cannot be returned for credit (what happens to those commercially marketable drugs when they are returned?).

    Problem drugs:
    - Any liquid
    - Any biologic (i.e. vaccines)
    - Epinephrine.
    - Tetracycline - old tetracyline had toxic effects (has since been reformulated)
    - water purification tablets
    - mefloquine hydrochloride (anti-malarial)


    Expiration dates are typically 2-3 years or 1 year or less after prescribed/repackaged/opened. FDA issues warnings to consumers not to use expired drugs.

    Stuff in your bug out bag or first aid kit in the car is particularly liable to degrade due to temperature extremes.

    One concern is that the pill bottles the drugs are repackaged into can admit air/oxygen/humidity. Air tight containers rarely are actually air tight - the seals breath with changes in air pressure and the plastic is permeable. And consumers frequently store in humid rooms such as bathroom or kitchen. Many do not have air conditioning.

    On the other hand, if you have drugs in their original unopened containers (not pharmacy containers) sealed in a #10 can with an oxygen absorber and desicant and temperature controled storage, this data might give some hints as to its lifetime.

    20% of drugs tested were not granted extension. Some drugs didn't even make it to their expiration date. In general, toxicity is not an issue:
    http://www.endtimesreport.com/Prescr...longevity.html
    Only one report known to the medical community linked an old drug to human toxicity. A 1963 Journal of the American Medical Association article said degraded tetracycline caused kidney damage. Even this study, though, has been challenged by other scientists. Mr. Flaherty says the Shelf Life program encountered no toxicity with tetracycline and typically found batches effective for more than two years beyond their expiration dates.
    Additionally, non-SLEP organizations that use SLEP information are in violation of Federal law that governs misbranded pharmaceuticals.
    http://www.usamma.army.mil/dod_slep.cfm
    It appears that, under the particular storage conditions of the specific lots of drugs tested by SLEP, they passed if there was a 95% confidence that the drugs retained 90% of their effectiveness.
    http://www.dsls.usra.edu/grandrounds/20091027/khan.pdf

    General USP storage temperatures for medicines which don't require refrigeration are are 25C +5/-10 (i.e. 15-30C). Some sites say below 25C. Refrigerated meds 2C to 8C. Each 10 celsius degree increase in temperature would probably translate to halving the life of the product. Reducing the temperature may increase life comparably, but there is little info about low temperature storage. Some drugs can be damaged by temperatures at or below freezing. Domestic fridges can inadvertently freeze contents.
    A UK study showed that in all doctors offices and pharmacies, drugs were stored at incorrect temperatures:
    http://www.rsm.ac.uk/media/pr157.php
    Temperatures in doctors bags in cars reached 49.5C/121F (could be worse in parts of the US); constant exposure to these temps could reduce the life of the drugs by about 83% vs 25C. A small microwave oven sized 8 bottle wine cooler might be worth considering if you want to store a bunch of expensive meds for a long time.

    Table of non-refrigerated storage durations for medications requiring refrigeration based on manufacturer data (free registration required):
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/562416_print
    Example results (room temperature): typical vaccines 72hours, insulin 14-30 days (depending on specific variety), penicillin G 7 days at 77F or 1 day at 104F, Saquinavir soft gelatin capsules 90days. Some explicitly stated durations were lifetime cummulative exposure.

    Video: Top 5 Antibiotics for SHTF storage:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOfthwm_v3E
    Suggests using calvetsupply.com (no prescription required, labeled for fish use). You can get for a lot less from shopmedvet.com but you would need a license on file (or perhaps a prescription).

    Potassium Iodide tablets (to protect thyroid against ingested radioactive iodine) are good indefinitely when properly stored but they do become more difficult to dissolve and may need to be crushed:
    http://www.nrc.gov/about-nrc/emerg-p...de/ki-faq.html

    Aside: WHO list of essential medicines (long):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHO_Mod...tial_Medicines

  5. #25
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    I know that the Paenibacillus bacteria I have been doing research on can be killed by birch bark. I grew some in a petri dish and put a tiny chunk of birch on top. By the next day all the bacteria under the birch bark was dead.

  6. #26
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    You probably squished 'em.

  7. #27
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    Yeah, you"re right. I probably did. Thanks for helping out with 6 months of research work.

  8. #28
    Administrator Rick's Avatar
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    I'm nothin' if not helpful.

  9. #29

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    Jerusalem Artichoke or Sunchoke is a plant that produces inulin a form of insulin and grows like a weed where ever you plant it. Also for antibiotics you can use animal antibiotics which is the same as people antibiotics and you do not need a prescription. Fishillian is one off the top of my head but they sell all just in case allergic to penn. Most antibiotics will last much longer then the exporation dates so dont get rid of them just because of that.

  10. #30

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    Here is a link with 10 herbs used for controlling blood sugar.

    http://www.rd.com/health/wellness/th...-for-diabetes/

    As far as antibiotics go, isn't green bread mold the fungus used to extract penicillin?

  11. #31
    Senior Member jfeatherjohn's Avatar
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    The antibiotics that I carry are all fish meds. They come in packettes that sre factory sealed.
    When I was doing my research, The Aquaium Guys had the lowest prices that I could find and just about any antibiotic can be purchased in those packettes.
    I like the powder form because is, for some reason, the med cannot be taken orally, it is an easy thing to set up an enema.
    I carry Amoxicillin, tetracycline, cephalexin abd ciprofloxin.
    I also carry wide range of OTCs, also in individual dose packs.
    The really expensive thing are the Epi-pens, but I don't want to give meds without them.
    If you are going to carry meds, you gotta know about them.
    I am an insulin-dependent diabetic. My planis to only take enough
    Lantus to keep my blod sugar in the low 200's. This is not ideal, but will probably double the span of time that I would have insulin.
    BTW, Lantus is the most forgiving insulin when it comes to storage conditions. It is the only insulin that actually does not require refrigeration.
    I'm done...
    KF7ZJR I always carry a pocket knife, just in Case.

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