would you trade your guns for groceries ?

[Justin Case]

Police bag firearms in grocery exchange
211 weapons collected in San Bernardino program
Mike Cruz, Staff Writer
Posted: 12/18/2010 04:29:47 PM PST

San Bernardino police collected 211 firearms at its first-ever Guns for Groceries gun buyback program Saturday at Arrowhead Credit Union Park.

The program was so successful, it ended early when police ran out of grocery coupons.

Among the weapons collected were a fully automatic Uzi, an AK-47 rifle and a Russian SKS rifle. Police said thousands of dollars worth of gift cards were handed out. No names of gun owners were collected.

"We have 211 weapons that will never, ever commit another crime in the city of San Bernardino," said police Lt. Keith Prostler. "If we saved one life by removing these 211 guns through this program, I count it as a huge success."

A $50 gift card was given in exchange for a pistol, rifle or a shotgun. Firearms classified as assault weapons under state law netted $100 gift cards.

Guns for Groceries was made possible by a $10,000 donation from Food for Less. Businesses that want to participate in future gun buyback programs can contact San Bernardino police at 909-384-5742.
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Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16893382#ixzz18Z5Bybrp

[Rick]

They have 211 weapons that probably would never ever have been used in a crime because they were turned in by law abiding (if not a tad naive) citizens. I'd be willing to bet a jelly donut that not one criminal turned in a single weapon.

[Justin Case]

They have 211 weapons that probably would never ever have been used in a crime because they were turned in by law abiding (if not a tad naive) citizens. I'd be willing to bet a jelly donut that not one criminal turned in a single weapon.

Yes, Thats how I feel too,, I guess these people dont know most of these guns are worth more than 50 bucks,,,, Hello Pawn shop !

[Justin Case]

Ya know, i just had another thought (ouch),, but wouldn't the transfer of ownership of these guns from the people to the police need to go through a licensed FFL dealer ????

[oly]

Well I do have a 30.06 that fired while loading and thank god I always keep my firearms pointed in a safe direction. It will not ever be fired again by anyone.

[canid]

it sounds like this was a no questions asked hand-over, not a transfer of ownership.

i doubt any person trading a restricted assault weapon was an FFL holder, or i suppose they would have just sold the thing through legal channels (and almost surely have gotten a better deal than $100).

i don't get the idea that these where all law abiding citizens, but also people taking the opportunity to get some groceries by giving up their unlawfully possessed firearms.

[Rick]

The only thing restricted was the full auto Uzi. AKs and SKS are not. They are nothing more than another semi-auto. So out of 211 weapons, one shouldn't have been on the street as far as we know. I just don't get it.

[canid]

you don't know that. there are many thousands of full auto converted rifles in this state, and a mind-bogglingly large number of unregistered handguns. who's going to sell their several hundred dollar, lawfully possessed firearm in a no-questions asked handover for a 50-100 dollar gift certificate? there are no shortage of purchasers.

the last time i tried to buy a handgun, despite the many dozens of pistols in the shop, the shop didn't seem to actually own any of them, and i couldn't get a sig, taurus, ruger, etc. in .40s&w or .45acp without having them order it from the factory with a several month backorder.

[Mertell]

I don't own any $50 guns. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever even seen a gun worth so little.....

[2dumb2kwit]

These gun buying schemes are about the biggest load of politically correct, make it look like we are doing something, crap I've seen.

It makes me sick, to think of all the historically significant guns, that have been destroyed, for no good reason.

[Justin Case]

Ya know, i just had another thought (ouch),, but wouldn't the transfer of ownership of these guns from the people to the police need to go through a licensed FFL dealer ????

I mean, whats to stop me or you from trading gift cards for guns ? if the guns are stolen aren't the cops guilty of receiving stolen property or something ? hmmm ?

[canid]

that's just the point. i don't think this was ever about compensating people appropriately to give up their lawfully owned guns but to see if any incentive of immediate value would persuade needy people go give up their illegal guns.

if i'm right inn that thinking then i can't say i mind the thought that it would appeal most to the most desperate of illegal gun owners.

[2dumb2kwit]

The story didn't say whether or not they checked the guns to see if any were stolen. Did any guns get returned to their rightful owners???

You know....on the bright side, if you are a criminal there, you now know that you can steal guns, and sell them to the police, with no questions asked.

Let's see......how can a criminal get drug money???

[canid]

i don't care how many of what sort of gun you own, lawfully or not, but if you're fool enough to let something of that value go for so little, when there are smarter options i can't say i'd trust your judgement in using one.

i can't take seriously the idea of selling stolen guns for small gift certificates and reselling those for guns because that's even less economical than trading the gun for the certificates in the first place. you might just as well sell the thing for near it's value in cash and buy any combination of guns, drugs and food you wanted at a better rate. it doesn't wash.

[Camp10]

I am in the group of Americans that believe the country is safer with armed citizens. I also think that most of the guns collected were probably worn out junk. The only other group that shows up to turn in guns are the elderly and it is usually because the hunband died and the spouse doent know what to do with the guns. It is criminal IMO to give an elderly lady $50 for a several hundred (at least) dollar rifle or shotgun!

[Justin Case]

Guns for groceries has its critics

Guns for groceries has its critics
Josh Dulaney, Staff Writer
Posted: 12/16/2010 05:09:14 PM PST

SAN BERNARDINO - As the Police Department gears up for its first-ever gun buyback event, some residents here are questioning the effectiveness of such programs, especially in a city where the relationship between law enforcement and the public has been strained at times.

"You might get (people) assuming it's a sting operation," said Marysa Morgan, a 28-year-old resident.

But the Police Department's top cop says Saturday's event at Arrowhead Credit Union Park, where folks can turn in unloaded guns for grocery gift cards, is a straightforward effort by police to get more guns off the streets.

Folks can turn the guns in anonymously.

"It may be hard to believe, but this is all no questions asked," Police Chief Keith Kilmer said.

Police invite the public to bring their pistols, rifles and shotguns in exchange for $50 gift cards for use at any Food 4 Less.

Gift cards worth $100 will be given in exchange for firearms classified as assault weapons under state law.

Under California law, guns considered assault weapons include rifles such as AK or AR-15 series weapons or other rifles that employ a box magazine, along with such design features such as a pistol grip, flash suppressor or thumbhole stock.

California's assault weapons law also includes shotguns or semiautomatic pistols with certain prohibited features.

Kilmer said the exchange process will be simple.

"Come to the location . . . and literally
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no questions asked, we're going to take the gun, make sure it's not loaded, treat it safely, take that gun in and issue you a card, and you get that card and you're on your merry way," he said.

Police are using a $10,000 donation from Food 4 Less to fund the program.

But critics of gun buybacks say the outreaches don't put a dent in crime and ultimately are a waste of money.

"They are great for politicians and others to look like they're doing something, but they're really silly and don't work," said Alex Tabarrok, a professor of economics at George Mason University in Virginia, and director of research at The Independent Institute, a nonprofit research group in Oakland.

Tabarrok said criminologists and sociologists have conducted so many studies showing the ineffectiveness of the programs across the country, that the researchers have tired of studying the issue.

"Typically what happens is, there's an old gun, it doesn't work any longer or people have just bought a new gun," he said. "People just turn in these old and often non-working guns."

In some cases where cash has been offered, folks end up with more money in their pockets than the guns are worth, he said.

But Kilmer, who had gun buyback program experience as Bell Gardens' police chief, where he served before coming to San Bernardino last year, said events in which he was involved saw a variety of firearms turned in, including newer models.

There is conflicting research on the program, he said.

"My perspective is, we should be doing everything we can to get firearms off the street when they're in a vulnerable position," Kilmer said. "It shows the public we're choosing to think outside the box."

Kilmer said guns used in crimes, including gang retaliations, are often stolen from "good people", so buybacks at least eliminate some firearms that would have otherwise been available to criminals.

He said the buyback is not the end-all to crime reduction, but is designed to augment other police efforts such as gang and narcotics enforcement, youth programs and education.

And while critics like Tabarrok suggest the money could be better spent on officer overtime or other efforts to put cops on the street, Kilmer said "$10,000 in overtime is not going to go very far."

He called the buyback program a "win-win" because it helps get guns off the street and money goes back into the community.

But even the idea of the gift cards going into the community was of concern to Morgan, who said a grocery card could be used in other crimes.

"Some people on drugs might want to sell it for drugs," she said. "Some people might say, `give me $30 for this $50 food card."'

Morgan said the program is worth a try and future buybacks could see bigger crowds if the police gain the trust of the public at the first event.

"They might get a better turnout once (people) see they don't get popped for it."

josh.dulaney@inlandnewspapers.com,
909-386-3885

Groceries for guns

The San Bernardino Police Department gun buyback event is scheduled to be from 9 a.m. to 3 p.m. on Saturday at Arrowhead Credit Union Park, 280 South E St.

Information on state gun laws can be viewed at the Attorney General's Office Bureau of Firearms page at ag.ca.gov/firearms.

Those who want to turn a firearm do not have to live in San Bernardino. Firearms become Police Department property and will not be returned.


Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/news/ci_16878261#ixzz18ZQvxRRc

[canid]

It is criminal IMO to give an elderly lady $50 for a several hundred (at least) dollar rifle or shotgun!

agreed wholeheartedly, but i haven't got the shadow of a cause to think that's what's happening.

any lawfull owner of a gun can sell it for a more or less fair value through legal channels, and anybody in their right mind in possession of an unlawful firearm can do the same through other channels.

the critics cited would be fools to question the effectiveness of a program that managed to buy 211 firearms for $10,550-21,100. any firearms dealer who could pull that off would retire and be the envy of the gun community.

the assertion that it is a waste of money, even if could be demonstrated to be true reflects only that it is moronic not to sell seized weapons back to the general public where it would ultimately improve the ratio of armed law-abiders to armed criminals.

[2dumb2kwit]

i don't care how many of what sort of gun you own, lawfully or not, but if you're fool enough to let something of that value go for so little, when there are smarter options i can't say i'd trust your judgement in using one.i can't take seriously the idea of selling stolen guns for small gift certificates and reselling those for guns because that's even less economical than trading the gun for the certificates in the first place. you might just as well sell the thing for near it's value in cash and buy any combination of guns, drugs and food you wanted at a better rate. it doesn't wash.

What really ticks me off, is the automatic distruction of everything that gets turned in. It's the little ol' widows, that turn in that gun that has been in the closet, forever, for $50 and the fact that they don't have to worry about that ol gun. They just don't know any better. I can't fault them for that, but someone should be there to say DON'T destroy that Nazi marked Mauser, that that vet. brought back from WW2. The one that he took off that dead Nazi, after a ......ah nevermind. Those who don't get it, never will.

[2dumb2kwit]

agreed wholeheartedly, but i haven't got the shadow of a cause to think that's what's happening.any lawfull owner of a gun can sell it for a more or less fair value through legal channels, and anybody in their right mind in possession of an unlawful firearm can do the same through other channels.

I have friends, who are LEO's that are involved in these "buybacks", and this is a VERY common thing! Those guys feel sick about it, but they have no choice, but to take the gun....and destroy it.

[2dumb2kwit]

agreed wholeheartedly, but i haven't got the shadow of a cause to think that's what's happening.

any lawfull owner of a gun can sell it for a more or less fair value through legal channels, and anybody in their right mind in possession of an unlawful firearm can do the same through other channels.

the critics cited would be fools to question the effectiveness of a program that managed to buy 211 firearms for $10,550-21,100. any firearms dealer who could pull that off would retire and be the envy of the gun community.

Effectiveness??? They spent 10 to 20 grand, and most likely didn't make any difference in crime.