May accept job as watchman

[canid]

good point. i think transformers draw overcurrent until the core is saturated, though i don't think it's a large percentage.

and of course very few things in this world make a person feel more secure than a 12ga pump action cycling.

[nwcountry]

I will keep this all in mind. I don't know if I'm even going to get a shot at the job now. Time will tell but I surely appreciate all the help/feedback I've gotten, Denise

[westom]

Are you for real? You're advice on generators is way off base. And how do you get 100s of volts out of a 12 volt system?

Please learn layman science. Stop using subjective speculation. Apparenlty you have not yet learned problems associated with regulator design. What has been known for so long that international design standards define it.

Some standards that define load dump include SAE J1455 and ISO 7637-1. Defined are automotive transients up to 270 volts and energy up to 50 joules. These are high side or extreme numbers. SGS Thompson (a major supplier of electronics for all vehicles) defines 12 volt load dump as:
> "The overvoltage is named the load dump and can be defined
> by the following figures:
> - Peak voltage 80 to 100 volts
> - Duration 300 to 400 milliseconds
> - Series resistance 0.2 to 1 ohms"

Same applies to generators. A cheap generator can end up being the most expensive. For example, a cheap generator will create problems described such as load changes - as loads always do. The noise is also taxing. Why do so many use Hondas and equivalent? We first learned the hard way from crap. Such as Briggs and Stratton who are now desperately trying to do what Honda was doing over a decade ago.

If cell phone service is spotty and since LTE and Wimax are so new, well, notice so many Dish TV receivers where people live on the road.

[Rick]

Well, hoowee, there westom. I recon I artta get me some of them thar edumacation books and try learnin' my self to read. I'll do my darndest to stay far away from subjective speculation if you think it best. I just don't understand how I'm supposed to speculate if'n I don't have a subject however.

I just love it when someone registers, comes on here claiming they are the be all end all and won't even bother to tell us anything about themselves. You are clearly an engineer. You've said a lot, explained very little and the problem still exists.

Should we just bow down now or should we wait for you to perform some miracle?

[crashdive123]

Well - I suppose I should throw out the two generators I have and get some Hondas. If I had known they were so inferior I would not have tried to get through all of the power outages associated withe the more than a dozen hurricanes and tropical storms that I've been through.

[westom]

I just love it when someone registers, comes on here claiming they are the be all end all and won't even bother to tell us anything about themselves.

You had two choices. Learn reality. Or just insult. Those who most fear to learn are nasty. And never post reasons for a better solution. So where is your better idea?

Most who have failures then invent myths. It was cheap. It just wore out. Was not powered on properly. The kids messed it up. All nonsense. When myths are replaced by facts, amazing how many failures are traceable to a crappy generator or something equivalent.

In a park of people who live mostly on the road, Honda generators and Dish TV are in large numbers. And alternate 12 V power sources are available.

Layman knowledge of well understood problems such as load dump is why informed laptop users use inverters designed to make transients irrrelevant. Therefore some inverters may cost $5 or $20 more. Therefore end up costing less money.

Some fail to notice so many Honda (and equivalent) generators. Superior generators are often unseen. Do not generate loud noise. Are safely located nearby and out of sight so that strangers do not even know that generator exists. Crappy gnerators are often located distant and exposed to keep noise and fumes away. Better generator means a powering off refrigerator causes no voltage spikes and other problems so often seen with cheap Briggs and Stratton crap. A problem discovered in Hondouraus after it was too late. But a cheap generator did not cause damage this week. Therefore it must be fine? Amazing how some just know. Then make excuses for resulting failures. And get nasty when reasons for those failures are provided.

[canid]

i'm still just learning about design of power supply regulation systems, but transient voltage spikes should be fairly easy to filter to nearly negligible from a design or even equipment modification perspective, yes?

i'm a bit confused by your choice of the term inverter. notebook power supplies of course use a transformer, rectifier and then varying degree of output conditioning circuitry in the older systems, and switched mode ac/dc converters in the newer systems (which do use in inverter in one step if i'm correct).

what am i missing here?

[Rick]

Look son, if you had read my post you would have seen that my first suggestion was an inverter generator. In absence of that I suggested any generator with precautions. I'm not going to debate this with you. In fact, I'm done with you altogether. But if you insist on maintaining this attitude on this forum you won't last long at all, inverter or not. Have a happy day.

[westom]

i'm a bit confused by your choice of the term inverter. notebook power supplies of course use a transformer, rectifier and then varying degree of output conditioning circuitry in the older systems, and switched mode ac/dc converters in the newer systems

Generally, the term inverter applies to power supplies that have a DC input (12V from a vehicle) and then create other DC voltages on the output. Power supplies generally refer to an AC to DC conversion.

Laptops come with an external power supply - that 'brick'. But that power supply can be replaced with an inverter that connects to a vehicles 12 volt system. This inverter operates different from, for example, a linear supply that might reduce 12 volts to 5 volts.

Notebook power supplies and all computers (even the original IBM PC) do not use a transformer, rectifier, etc as you imply. Obsolete technology supplies did that (for example 1960s HP minicomputers that always took two people of us to move). Ironically, all PC power supplies operate more like an inverter. For example, most every power supply converts that 120 VAC to well over 300 VDC. Then converts that DC to high voltage radio waves. Then converts that high voltage to high current radio waves. Then converts radio waves to a low voltage DC (ie 19 VDC for a laptop). Still, we generally call that a power supply; not an inverter.

Then an inverter inside every laptop convert that maybe 19 VDC to other rock solid and stable DC voltages such as 3.3, 5, and other voltages to recharge a battery.

All those conversions are why laptops and other computers can make 600 and 1000 volt spikes irrelevant. But a poor 120 volt generator creating long overvoltages (maybe 300 volts) can be so destructive. A voltage that power strip protectors will ignore. This lower but longer voltage can occur when, for example, a refrigerator powers off and the generator is poorly designed. This causes electronic failures because a generator was bought on price; not on facts.

A superior generator may have been an inverter generator that Rick was referring to. If true, then his attacks made no sense. Why do better informed consumers buy the Honda? For so many reasons including this one. Because superior generators such as the Honda (what he might have called call inverter generators) do create such destructive overvoltages.

[Rick]

Read up on this link, will you? Then come back and tell us about Honda generators.

http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...G&category=inv

[crashdive123]

Generally, the term inverter applies to power supplies that have a DC input (12V from a vehicle) and then create other DC voltages on the output. Power supplies generally refer to an AC to DC conversion.

Guests can not see images in the messages. Please register in the forum.

[canid]

Generally, the term inverter applies to power supplies that have a DC input (12V from a vehicle) and then create other DC voltages on the output. Power supplies generally refer to an AC to DC conversion.

you'll have to excuse me because this differs from every text book i've read and all my admittedly limited experience. as i've seen, an inverter generally refers specifically to a device which converts DC to AC, while a device which converts DC to DC is called exactly that, a DC-DC converter. i haven't found any variation here, except in non-technical discussion.

the only inverter i've heard of in a notebook power supply is the kind i'm familiar with; a dc-ac inverter, as part of a switch mode supply.

let's not loose anything in our wording; it is not 'all those conversions' which somehow vaguely condition the supply to eliminate noise, transients, etc. but the regulatory and filtering circuitry designed into the circuit specifically for that purpose. that supply conditioning is not overly complicated, nor expensive to implement. it's my understanding that switch mode supplies are favored over regulated linear supplies primarily out of concern for efficiency. why i'm dwelling on this i'm not sure; it's early.

like most things in electronics, small increases in cost seem to have inexcusably large impacts on retail pricing, but that's not $1.25 worth of hardware or $0.20 more in assembly cost's fault.

if i'm wrong about the unregulated or linear-regulated supplies being used in notebooks, i apologize; i try not to be wrong too many times in one day.

on a side note; i'm a honda loyalist too, but you sound like one of their PR people. i wish i knew more about generators, but that's an area that's lacking for me.

[klickitat]

So just use the generator to charge the battery bank and run through an inverter off the charged batteries?


BTW Westom, I only thought I had an ego. wow.

[Batch]

I have 3 generators. One isn't of much use to me. A large portable that I connect to the panel if the power goes out. And I have a Honda EU2000i for electronics.

If you do not own a Honda generator or have had the privileged to hear one run you can not understand.

My dad is getting to wear archery in 100 degree 100percent humidity just ain't good. He took to bringing a fan to sit by at camp and to sleep with. He drug his genie out there and would take it a 100' cord back in the woods. I can set that Honda just out side his tent and it is quieter than the one 100' in the woods!

I don't know how it would come out on a video. But, I would be glad to illustrate that if folks want.

I worked for decades on a truck with a Miller or Lincoln power plant on them. These are good genies but I would not charge drill batteries on them if given the choice. I had to many die. I keep my electronics on better regulated power sources.

I have been threatening to put a bank of deep cycle batteries under my trucks tool box. Run a cable and a switch from the alternator and charge the batteries when I am driving. Then have an inverter wired to a receptacle in a weather proof box.

As for the 4G coverage. It is being rolled out in the more populace areas first. Though I could see where I camp getting spotty coverage like I do with 3G. You will be in a trailer and so can use some of the boosting technology.

I get no signal, edge or 3G depending on how the planets align where I spend most of my time. I would cache my favorite sites for later reading if you do go to town like you mentioned.

[westom]

it's my understanding that switch mode supplies are favored over regulated linear supplies primarily out of concern for efficiency. why i'm dwelling on this i'm not sure; it's early.

Converting electricity from AC to DC to radio waves to DC by itself creates massive conditioning. And then between each conversion is more filtering.

Switching supplies provide efficiencies that cannot be found in linear supplies. And can operate over much wider voltage ranges. Therefore a laptop works on any voltage from 85 to 265 volts. Seriously reduces weight. A 400 pound HP minicomputer was replaced with a 40 pound box by replacing its massive linear supply with a switching supply. Supply seriously reduces costs even by eliminating that so expensive and heavy line transformer. Increases galvanic isolaton. And it makes overvoltage, overcurrent protection, and other functions easier to implement.

BTW, an old Bill and Dave story. Which means it might be myth. When HP engineers said they could not replace a massive linear supply in that tiny hole, Dave personally designed it in 3 months.

Another inverter is DC to AC. But I was discussing in terms of what happens inside electronic power. Electronics need DC power; not AC.

Some of the 'dirtiest' power is provided by a DC to AC inverter. That type of 'dirt' made irrelevant by how electronic switching power supplies work.

If you see a secret message, then you are applying biases into that text. Read only what is posted. Don't assume. If it sounds like a Honda sales pitch, then the sentence that defines it as a sales pitch.

Meanwhile Honda was doing what Briggs and Strattion would have been doing 25 years ago if engineers (not business school graduates) were designing hardware. Honda is a benchmark. Honda is why even Briggs and Stratton had to let engineers design. Honda generators that costs more actually end up costing less. It happens when innovation is not stifled.

[Pepper]

your truck is 12 volts less its 24 volts you might spike on amps but if you get more then 12 volts something is wrong with your system , get a generater that you can plug your trailer into , small trailers are usally 30 amp go to a couple places and explain what you are gonna run in you trailer at 1 time your breaker box in your trailer should protect your computer tv ect , I have a large generater its made by subaru 11 hp power (800.00), get a shotgun and a hand gun with shells use it to protect yourself have fun DONOT let the guys flirt with you ,you work they work when i got out of the Army i was disabled i could only walk for a short distant i was hired to watch the gates on a very large ranch oil field they would honk and i would get up and open the gate take the truck # ect , there was a 40 year old women that worked 1 week i worked 1 week and so on she was a very nice person friendly funny woman she flirted with a truck driver ,he came back one evening and I dam near shot him when he walked into trailer without knocking he was drunk we changed shifts that afternoon. keep it professinal . he was fired and arrested ,she was moved to another location . good luck have fun take some great pictures

[shiftyer1]

After reading this thread i've come to the realization that I may have come to the wrong site. I was looking for a forum that was primarily in english! I totally agree with the shotgun and also the dog if allowed. I would tell that to ANYONE ANYWHERE. As far as electronics I really can't contribute other than to add that in my experiance sattelite internet such as wild blue leaves alot to be desired but, it's better than nothing. As far as generators...honda does make a VERY quiet generator and I do like honda motors. But in generators I have next to no experiance so please don't use my opinion because it is not a working opinion. Also portable dvd payers are an option but I don't know if u can see more thn 1 movie without running out of battery. Also nobody has suggested it but propane is expensive, u may want to learn to cook on a fire if u don't already know. I lived in a 23 foot for 4 yrs or so and thats how I primarily cooked due to cost was on the campfire, but i'm cheap.

I see this topic is a month old, I assume u didn't get the job.....or maybe ya did and haven't figured out the internet thing yet. I'm curious if U got the job and how u like it so far if u did.

[Rick]

If you are looking for a forum in English then you need to know the U is spelled "you". It's best not to cast stones or aspersions lest they fall back at your feet. There are a lot of folks on here that English is a second language. I for one think they fair better at English than I would in there native language.

[crashdive123]

After reading this thread i've come to the realization that I may have come to the wrong site. I was looking for a forum that was primarily in english! I totally agree with the shotgun and also the dog if allowed. I would tell that to ANYONE ANYWHERE. As far as electronics I really can't contribute other than to add that in my experiance sattelite internet such as wild blue leaves alot to be desired but, it's better than nothing. As far as generators...honda does make a VERY quiet generator and I do like honda motors. But in generators I have next to no experiance so please don't use my opinion because it is not a working opinion. Also portable dvd payers are an option but I don't know if u can see more thn 1 movie without running out of battery. Also nobody has suggested it but propane is expensive, u may want to learn to cook on a fire if u don't already know. I lived in a 23 foot for 4 yrs or so and thats how I primarily cooked due to cost was on the campfire, but i'm cheap.

I see this topic is a month old, I assume u didn't get the job.....or maybe ya did and haven't figured out the internet thing yet. I'm curious if U got the job and how u like it so far if u did.

If you are going to criticize somebody's English, keep in mind that spelling, capitalization and punctuation are all part of it......just sayin'.

[Pal334]

Mmmm,, seems this update to the forum did not include a troll filter. Just saying