New Piece

[your_comforting_company]

My parents went to visit my grandparents in OK over the thanksgiving holiday. Grampa seems to have taken a particular liking to me and my way of thinking. So he saw fit to bestow upon me a new tool from ages past. This is one thing that falls right in the middle of everything I know. I understand a great deal about primitive ways, and modern ways.

This beauty right here falls more in the "pioneer" days. Time to plan for some new supply stash. I don't know anything about black powder rifles at all. I do know I'll need bullet molds, powder and primers. I suppose I also need lube and some other stuff. Grampa is gonna give me the ins and outs, but expect to see more questions on this one from me.
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It's a Thompson / Center, New Englander, model 61171. Still has the original ramrod! I can't find much info on it, so I'm gonna call the mfg early next week. I have no idea how old this beauty is, but I'd really like to find out. I can't find any info on it on the thompson site.

(sorry for the big pics, gonna fix those in a minute!)

[Sourdough]

Don't know if you seen this: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...englander.html

[hunter63]

Congrats, T/C makes a quaility tool.
I have a couple of T/C Hawkens, .50 cal, and am still looking for a deal on a rock lock.

SD's link answers most of the questions, but if you have any others please ask.

They are fun, and can lead to full blown camps and such..................jsut a warning

[your_comforting_company]

Thanks guys. That link helps out. The slugs grampa sent with it are 245 gr. Powerbelts. The package says "The bullet that made sabots obsolete". Got a lot of research to do! I'm led to believe that 100gr of powder at 50 - 75 yds would be a definate kill shot (I'm a very good shot with iron sights!)

Any idea how old this thing might be?

I have to talk to a few cattle farmers to find a nice powderhorn. These bullets have green pads on the bottom, so do I need patches for it? What about lube?

Boy I have a lot to learn about this.. It's one of those things that for me always came pre-packaged.. open the box, pop one in and go bang. Now I have to learn the measures, etc.

How much of this stuff can I make myself? Black powder is one of those things I never thought I could make on my own, and certainly not the primer caps, so I'm not real sure how good of a "survival rifle" it might be. I guess that will hinge on how cheap the ingredients are, vs, how quickly I can stockpile them.

I want to make myself a nice paracord strap and get down to hog country and try it out! Looks like I'll be working this weekend, so it might be next weekend before I get a chance to try it. I'm excited!!

[rebel]

Thanks guys. That link helps out. The slugs grampa sent with it are 245 gr. Powerbelts. The package says "The bullet that made sabots obsolete". Got a lot of research to do! I'm led to believe that 100gr of powder at 50 - 75 yds would be a definate kill shot (I'm a very good shot with iron sights!)

Any idea how old this thing might be?

I have to talk to a few cattle farmers to find a nice powderhorn. These bullets have green pads on the bottom, so do I need patches for it? What about lube?

Boy I have a lot to learn about this.. It's one of those things that for me always came pre-packaged.. open the box, pop one in and go bang. Now I have to learn the measures, etc.

How much of this stuff can I make myself? Black powder is one of those things I never thought I could make on my own, and certainly not the primer caps, so I'm not real sure how good of a "survival rifle" it might be. I guess that will hinge on how cheap the ingredients are, vs, how quickly I can stockpile them.

I want to make myself a nice paracord strap and get down to hog country and try it out! Looks like I'll be working this weekend, so it might be next weekend before I get a chance to try it. I'm excited!!

You might want to try some round balls and patches.

I haven't tried it yet but, there is a tool that you can get that makes caps from aluminum cans and pop gun poppers.

A ball and patch puller is good to have too. Then if you don't see anything to shoot you can take out your corrosive powder and save it for the next time. It saves a lot of time on cleaning too.

Anyway, I think you're going to like black powder shooting. Be safe. Remember, the cap is the last thing to go on and the first to come off.

[crashdive123]

Looks great YCC. Enjoy your learning.

[Rick]

Well, it doesn't get much better than that does it? Not only is it a fine functional firearm but it was presented to you by your grandfather. You gotta love that. Congrats.

[Old GI]

Fantastic.

I gave my old 50 cal to my stepson in NM a few years ago. He got his elk on the first day of black powder season. He called me to tell me about his adventure (how the shot was made, loading by it by himself in his little Toyota pick up using ratchet tie down straps, etc.). I laughed but I was soooo proud!! I guess that makes it official, I'm the only one he called and that makes me a father (and grandfather) figure.

Fed his family of four and others (me included) for some time. He loves black powder (now).

[rwc1969]

YCC you might wanna check out these bullets. They are comparable to the powerbelts, but less expensive and actually better
imo. http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/...productId/5483

But, I'd probably just shoot round balls in that with 90 gr. of powder. In fact I have quite a few .50 cal round balls, patches, primers/ percussion caps and possibly a few other items I could send you. Just pm me your addy or something along those lines.

The main thing to remember with that rifle is if you shoot it clean it that day or the next as it will rust out in no time flat. Cleaning is done easily with dish soap and hot water.

Cool rifle btw, nice hand me down for sure.

[rwc1969]

One more thing, if it isn't already done. Make sure the rifle is emty, insert ramrod and mark it. That way if you stick the ramrod in you can tell if it's already loaded. I also put a mark on my ramrod for loaded position as well, but wait to do that until I decide on my preferred load and bullet. That will let you know if the bullet is seated properly.

Believe me you don't want to shoot two loads and you don't want to shoot your ramrod out either. Make sure you remove it before each shot.

I know it might sound silly saying that, but it happens quite often and sometimes with devastating results.

[kyratshooter]

YCC, you have now been abducted by by the spirits of those gone before.

What can you use?

What can you make?

You are now limited only by your skill set.

From this point you can "make" everything and I am sure YOU will want too. Start piling up antler tips, deer leg bones, leather scraps and such. do not worry about cow horns, I have suppliers.

I have suppliers for everything! Fear not!

First thing you will need is a shooting bag. The "Dad purse" as my kids called it. all this stuff has to be kept in order and accessable so start with the shooting bag. It needs to be about 10"x12"x3" with a wide strap.

Welcome from your new partners in excess.

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Believe it or not the people in that shot include a parole officer, a state trooper, a local cop and a Green Barret. Some of us still have to keep day jobs.

[hunter63]

I guess I had to kinda smile when you mentioned that you got it from your Grandfather, and I'm thinking "OLD", then I thought, heck, I'm a Grandfather, and I guess 40 years old is old.
Anyway T/C rifles are reproductions, or at least some are built with modern materials in classic(old) designs.

T/C was started in 1965, rifles are mostly from 1970 up.
Here is a little history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_Center_Arms

So it's not a collectible in the classic sense, (I kinda "collect" some, but that's a different story), but it is a very well made and useful tool. Fun as well.

Sounds to me that you were provided with Maxi/Mini balls, no patch needed, just a little grease on/into the base before starting down the bore.

This is a "possibles bag" set up for patched round balls/mini's , I use a more modern style for the in-line shooting sabots.

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I like patched round balls in mine, seem to shoot real well, (rifle shoots better than I do), some shoot round balls better, some shoot maxi/minis (bullets/slugs), and some shoot sabot better, depending on twist rate.
The New Englander is a 1-48 twist rate, I think, so should either one well.

I looked up The New Englander on the manuals page on the T/C web site, didn't see the manual listed, so tried the CS number, was 15th call in que, so I guess Thursday is a busy day?

[Old GI]

One more thing, if it isn't already done. Make sure the rifle is emty, insert ramrod and mark it. That way if you stick the ramrod in you can tell if it's already loaded. I also put a mark on my ramrod for loaded position as well, but wait to do that until I decide on my preferred load and bullet. That will let you know if the bullet is seated properly.

Believe me you don't want to shoot two loads and you don't want to shoot your ramrod out either. Make sure you remove it before each shot.

I know it might sound silly saying that, but it happens quite often and sometimes with devastating results.

Oh, rwc, it ain't silly at all. I'll refrain from boring you with my cleaning rod in an M1 story. This is an excellent thought and I'll pass it to my stepson. Great idea!

[hunter63]

One more thing, if it isn't already done. Make sure the rifle is emty, insert ramrod and mark it. That way if you stick the ramrod in you can tell if it's already loaded. I also put a mark on my ramrod for loaded position as well, but wait to do that until I decide on my preferred load and bullet. That will let you know if the bullet is seated properly.

Believe me you don't want to shoot two loads and you don't want to shoot your ramrod out either. Make sure you remove it before each shot.
I know it might sound silly saying that, but it happens quite often and sometimes with devastating results.

Good advice, it's embarrassing, and dangerous.
Forgetting to put powder is before the ball/bullet, sabot is also common.

A small squeeze bottle (contact lens drops, with the hole in the end enlarged) of 4f powder (very fine), to squirted in to the nipple hole, (take nipple out first), works well to have enough to blow out ball/bullet, if you do forget to "pour before you "P".
If it doesn't get "shot out" in first try, try again, but be SURE to push ball/bullet back down all the way!

Pulling the ball with a bullet puller is a real Pain in the butte, I would only resort to this as a last resort.
The screw expands the ball, making it even tighter to pull, and most rods don't have too much to grab on to, to get enough leverage.

If you check out the pic' left center is a nipple wrench, with a screw drilled, tapped in to it, that fits end of ram rod, just for this reason.
Cleaning patches on cleaning the jag get stuck in barrel, as well, and the rod gets greasy, so its a valuable tool.

If you are just quitting hunting for the day, the charge may left in, just un-cap it, and is considered unloaded in most states.
A small piece of leather over the cop hole will seal it up very well.

If done with the rifle, I like to fire it, to get rid of the load, and to see if it's gonna go off. Had carried a loaded ML all week only to have it not fire at the end of season.
Oil collecting in primer hole and bottom of breach is very common, as a lot of guys figure the more oil, the better........not in ML's, particularly if stored up right in a closet, safe etc.

Always fire a couple of caps before loading, to dry out the hole and breach.

In-lines------Breach plug can be unscrewed to dump powder/pellets out the breach, then ball/bullet pushed thru with loading rod.
Good way to make sure the breach plug isn't corroded and stuck, easier to do it in a vise than the tailgate of the truck.

[kyratshooter]

TC call in center is probably jambed due to it being ML season over half the nation right now. One thing you just did was extend your deer hunting season by severl days/weeks. Here in KY we get an extra 10 days. down in TN we got a whole extra month.

TC sidelocks solve most of the problems with ML guns. They use coil springs and lock everything down so it is tamper proof. They are also about 10x stronger than they need to be. If you overload it the recoil may dislocate your shoulder, stomp your butt in the mud and make you nose bleed for two days but it will not blow up!

New Englanders have 1/48 twist. They will do a fair job on about any projectile.

If you check for a loaded charge with the ram rod be advised that TC uses a patent breech that has a threaded section that extends into the barrel for about an inch. You have the snail drum section about an inch thick and then the threaded section another inch, so your RR will be about 2" up from the end of the barrel.

The New Englander was designed as a utility gun w/o fancy brass or extras. It also came in a smoothbore model for states that prohibited rifling.

[your_comforting_company]

COOL!
Look at all the little projects, stuff to make! This is gonna be real fun!
I'm gonna be asking for write-ups for the forum from some of you guys.

The New Englander was designed as a utility gun w/o fancy brass or extras

Sounds perfect for me!
I just happen to have some black angus skin tanning in black walnut right now, so The possibles bag is going to be a real treat.
Primitive weapons (it's a firearm?!?) season comes in a clear month earlier here than rifle season (boomstick is boomstick, right?!?). Any excuse will do for me to go out to the woods! Happy days are ahead!

You fella's have presented me with a few days of info to soak in. First on the agenda is to mark the ramrod, clean and lube the gun. I'll get on that tonight. I have a little overnight bag I can use for a shooting bag till the cow is done tanning. Got a lot of learnin and makin to do!
Thanks guys!

[SARKY]

I have a TC Hawken and TC White Mountain Carbine. The Carbine I found to be way more useful in dense brush. I cast my own hollow point minne balls (A TC mould no longer in production) I use 90 grains of powder in mine. It's what it likes. When you get to shooting, try different powder loads to see which it shoots best with.

[glockcop]

Very nice smoke pole from a really good company. You lucky devil. I'm jealous. You just gotta take a white tail with it this year. You just gotta!

[hunter63]

...............
How much of this stuff can I make myself? Black powder is one of those things I never thought I could make on my own, and certainly not the primer caps, so I'm not real sure how good of a "survival rifle" it might be. I guess that will hinge on how cheap the ingredients are, vs, how quickly I can stockpile them...............

Black powder can be made, still need charcoal, sodium nitrate, and sulphur, but the weak link is still the caps.

This is why I still have been keeping my eyes open for a flintlock Hawken, that would solve that.

[Sparky93]

......I haven't tried it yet but, there is a tool that you can get that makes caps from aluminum cans and pop gun poppers.......

I read somewhere that you have to find american made pop gun poppers for it to work right. The made in China ones won't work for some reason.