Cold....."Bitter COLD"........and long term survival???

[Sourdough]

My lack of education is my weak point. Having read so little I try to choose carefully what I do read. I found the complete works of Shakespear at a garage sale last summer I am trying to read when I find the time now. Spell check makes me look smarter than I am but don't be fooled, you are talking to a truck driver that never finished school. If I have any advantage at all is that I know I'm an idiot unlike some very educated people.

Well your my kind of people.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Well your my kind of people.

Well there are lots of us up here. Part of why we stay. I'ts certainly not the weather.

[Rick]

Well your my kind of people.

We gotta find that boy a woman.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Maybe a thong would help?

[BENESSE]

OK Rick, it wasn't me that said it now, was it?

[Rick]

He was eyein' AS so I'm not even in this fracas.

[Batch]

My lack of education is my weak point. Having read so little I try to choose carefully what I do read. I found the complete works of Shakespear at a garage sale last summer I am trying to read when I find the time now. Spell check makes me look smarter than I am but don't be fooled, you are talking to a truck driver that never finished school. If I have any advantage at all is that I know I'm an idiot unlike some very educated people.

Are you saying that some very educated people don't know your an idiot?

Up until last year I had me a ninth grade edjumication.

My boss had to go to court and the opposing lawyer was implying that the mechanic was an idiot because of his misspelling of several words in a report.

My boss said, "So, he can't spell very well. But, can you rebuild a diesel engine?"

How's that for a nice hot cup of shut the f@#K up!?

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Are you saying that some very educated people don't know your an idiot?

No they know it and feel the same about everybody else is too except themselves of coarse. They are almost right.

[crashdive123]

My lack of education is my weak point. Having read so little I try to choose carefully what I do read. I found the complete works of Shakespear at a garage sale last summer I am trying to read when I find the time now. Spell check makes me look smarter than I am but don't be fooled, you are talking to a truck driver that never finished school. If I have any advantage at all is that I know I'm an idiot unlike some very educated people.

Don't sell yourself short. The very educated people knew that about you too.


I hope that humor came through

[Rick]

Er, um, Crash. Have you read about the poison cake yet? Or the rigged shotgun? Just remember that if you can see AS then he can see you, too. If you can't see him then you are seconds from death.

[Batch]

I hope that humor came through

I was hoping the same thing when I posted my comment above.

Your post made me feel better though. Cause he has to come through you first on his way down here. If he flies to Miami and asks for directions in English he'll be lost for years.

¿Qué? No hablamos ingles aqui gringo!

[Rick]

AS can not only speak every language in the world, he invented them.

[BENESSE]

...and on the sixth day, he created all those who speak them.

[crashdive123]

You guys are giving him entirely too much credit. If he were standing in front of me right ...................Hey! Who's behind me?.........

[Alaskan Survivalist]

I'm not like that. To prove it let me bake you a cake.

[Rick]

Oh, see??????? I think the lesson of how to give respect is going to be a hard one. I, for one, respect the man. (Besides, I don't have enough good bones left to break)

[Rick]

I had to resurrect this thread because I've been doing a lot of research on it since SD posted it. I thought it was an excellent question.

I've stated in past threads that I try to look at folks that have lived specific events to try and understand how they survived that event. What secrets did they have that enabled them to survive when others perished. In this case, I turned to the Battle of Moscow in late 1941 and early 1942. The temps were -20° to -40° F with significantly lower wind chills. While the Germans were ill prepared for such bitter cold the Russians were well prepared and wore Telogreika padded coats and pants with a full length wool overcoat. The term Telogreika is Russian for "body warmer". We would know them as quilted coats and pants with draw strings at the ankles. Everything buttoned closed, even the sleeves, to keep cold air out. Many of the jackets had high collars although that varied quite a bit it seems.

The wore velenkis or felt boots. In this case the boots were made of wool felt. Since felt is not waterproof they wore a cover boot of rubber. We refer to them as galoshes rather than a true rubber boot that we're so familiar with. They also had a foot wrap that was made of flannel. It mimics our socks but was simply a cloth that was wrapped around the foot. It's called a Portyanki.

The Ushanka is the head covering we equate with Russia and some other countries. It has the flat fur front and the ear flaps on the sides. The word comes from the Russian word Ushi, which means ears. They were mostly sheepskin during WWII but could be made out of any available fur such as rabbit or even muskrat.

Underwear, as unbelievable as it seems, was made of cotton. Both summer and winter were long underwear with winter being heavier than summer wear for obvious reasons. I just have to believe they had wool long johns but I can not find any reference to them at all. Only cotton.

The gloves were five finger wool gloves rather than mitts. However, they also had leather trigger finger mittens. I haven't been able to determine if the wool gloves served as liners for the mittens but I assume they did.

I've provided the actual names in case anyone wants to look the items up.

Winter survival in extreme temps is a pretty straight forward affair in terms of clothing. Basics such as wool and felt, things we know all too well, and layering all seem to be key to not freezing to death.

The long wool coats, which can still be purchased if you are interested, are simply a modernized version of your wool blanket, SD. It's exactly the same principle, I think. Both very warm and capable of retaining body heat should you get wet.

I hope that adds some insight into surviving in extreme cold. There's hardly anything we could encounter that someone, somewhere hasn't already successfully gone through. It's just a matter of understanding what their strategy was to be successful and then trying to mimick it or improve upon it should we find ourselves in the same situation.

[Alaskan Survivalist]

Rick, Don't get hung up on the cotton thing. I've been 70 miles into the Arctic ocean wearing wearing 100 percent cotton duck (Carharts) and there is nothing better. The weave makes as big a difference as the material. I've said that a dozen times.

[Rick]

Well, the weave is everything in cotton isn't it? A loose weave allows the loss of heat when wet. Wool expands closing the weave when cotton doesn't.

Just a bit of additional info. Here's how a Portyanki is folded around the foot.

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[Alaskan Survivalist]

Weave is important to wool as well. There is much more to it. In serious cold matted wool sucks. Used properly for what it does best nothing is better than heavy knit virgin wool. This is a portion of something I posted on a friends forum that explains it.

Keeping the blood flow to extremities keeps them warm and overheating to the point of sweating presents the danger of loosing insulation effectiveness. Regulating that temperature is critical and physical activity needs to be factored in. You guys get all that but there is two pieces of clothing that accomplishs heat regulation better than any other. Removing hat or gloves to regulate temperature in extreme cold can be hazardess. Frostbite can happen in an instant and fingers and ears (and toes) are most vulnerable. Even if they just get cold they will be harder and take longer to warm up. That's what you don't do but what should you do? The answer is to regualate your core directly and if more cooling needed to do it through arms. A vest with a heavy knit wool sweater under it can be used like this. First a vest maintains your mobilty better than wearing another layer with sleeves that will bind you and secondly insulates core where most of your heat is. If wearing a parka unzipping it will release the air between vest and parka. If further cooling is needed then unzip vest exposing heavy knit wool. I say heavy knit wool because weave is important. Dead air space is what insulates and large heavy weave will hold more of it there as long as it is covered. Without being covered wind removes the dead air. So by controlling how much of it is exposed you can control temperature very effectively to match activity. If more cooling is needed remove parka and that is why I have a stuff sack and a way to strap it to my kit. With vest zipped up and arms coverd with wool you are still good for cold temperature and physical exertion because the wool will also bleed off moisture. By the time you are are unzipping vest or removing it temperatures should no longer be life threatening. I know this is old school but I continually try the new materials and new methods and nothing has come even close to being as effective yet.

Rick believe me, I have tried everthing over my life working in the cold. If there was a a btter way I would do it in a heart beat. I just found something new I have accepted. It's a gear bag that when unziped lays flat and can be used as a ground cloth or tarp, then to fill with gear you just throw all your stuff in it and zip it up. Some places I drive I am required to carry specific gear and this is the bag I will use and liked it so much I got another for personal use.

This is how I am using my bags. One has all my miltary arctic gear, rain gear, 2 pairs of chest waiders and 4 pairs of boots.

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The it zips up into water resistent bag about 4 feet long. Cinch straps tighten it up and handles can be used to lash it down. I will be painting logo to camo it.

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In the second bag I put my Carhart work gear and Lacrosse Boots. This is top of the line arctic work gear and will be still in use decades after my military gear is rags. Some of it has already been on the job 20 years!

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