im just gonna try bark tanning with the fur on first, that way i have at least a bit of a clue what im doing. maybe experiments wil come later. lol
im just gonna try bark tanning with the fur on first, that way i have at least a bit of a clue what im doing. maybe experiments wil come later. lol
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.
- Greek Proverb
Day 26 of the bark tan:
I checked for strike through and added the first gallon of my 1st pouring, doesn't seem to be even close.
This was the first pic, but the wetness and camera flash makes it appear more white than it actually is.
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This was the second pic, which still used a flash and made it appear more white than it really was, but you can see where it is starting to strike through.
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This pic is lower quality, no flash, but shows the strike through progress better.
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This final pic is after it was let dry just slightly and using natural light from the window.
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I don't know if these pics help or not, but, the lower edge is the grain side and the upper edge is the flesh side. This sample was taken from the thickest part of the neck which is about 1/8" thick.
I expected it to be struck through further given the amount of tannins it has already absorbed. I only have 1/2 gallon of liquor left which is first pour. I suppose once that's put in the mix I'll be left with adding straight bark to the mix in order to replenish the tannins.
Not really sure what to think at this point.
YCC?
I think it's going great. You might have to put some straight bark in there to finish up. Looks like it's pretty close to the center to me, but like you said, it's hard to tell in a pic. The middle pic, in the dark looks like it might have a little farther to go, but not much!
Go ahead and add that last 1/2 gallon, give it a few days, then stick a few chunks of bark in there to finish it off.
Keep in mind I really expected it to take more like 60+ days given the cold up there. If you need to make more liquor, dilute it less, or cook it down, but be careful not to go buck wild and get it too strong.
One of my deerskins took 60 days, so if you're at day 26, just keep it going.. it'll get there!
Is it possible at this stage to go too strong considering it's been in there over a month now?
I added the final pouring of liquor today, about 1/2 gallon of first pour. The liquor hasn't appeared to get weaker, but it is hard to tell now as it too has taken on the milky tea look. Also, it seems to be more noticable to the nose now. It doesn't smell rotten, but is defintely becoming somewhat unpleasant to smell.
As far as the hockskins go, the liquor hasn't appeared to weaken at all. Might be due to the fact that there's about 3-4 gallons of liquor to two tiny hockskins. The are dark red, but the hair is still unchanged. Can't remeber if I mentioned it, but they no longer float. As thin as they are i'm surprised they haven't struck through, but I think the hair is holding them back.
In another week I may add some fresh bark chips to both and check once more for strike through. I'm growing impatient and want to make a sheath for my double bit axe and perhaps a powder flask.
I do have one question on this, if I want to make a flask or something else by wet forming do I still need to curry and finish the skin? Or, can I just pull it out wet, cut to shape and form it?
I suppose it's possible to get too strong, but at this point, I would say it's highly unlikely. There should be enough inside for it to tan on out.
As long as it doesn't smell rotten, it's okay. My old bark liquor smells pretty funky, but not rotten. If that last 1/2 gallon doesn't do it, you can add bark chips to the liquor or boil a new batch and condense it stronger. Keep in mind it's a balance.. so the more tanned it gets, the darker the liquor has to stay.. I hope that makes sense lol.
I'm really surprised the hock hair isn't stained. This is great news!
At day 36 I would expect it to take 9 more days at least. If you can drop those chips on it, it should be done by then. It looked pretty close on that last neck check.
I would probably curry the finished hide and form it while it is wet from the curry, then after it's formed, oil the outside with a heavy grease. You can take it straight out of the rinse and form it, and only oil the outside if you wish. It is effectively tanned and oiling is really only to make it pliable, which you don't want too much of. The curry will help the skin take the oil from the outside (grain side) more easily. It's really up to you on that one. I believe H63 posted a thread around here somewhere about wet-forming.
I know you're eager to see and use it, but give it a few more days and a dose of chips and see what happens.
Both my Live Oak and oak/walnut tans froze last night... OOPS!
Ya, if i'd have had this outside it would freeze solid overnight. We've pretty much been below freezing since December 1st and have had constant snow cover with only a 2 day thaw and rain in between. We're approaching a foot of snow now. I just hope the liquor don't start reeking too bad or Mom will make me move it out and then I'll be screwed.
The house got steamed up pretty bad making last seasons maple and boiling the last liquor so in order to maintain peace I can't do it in the house NO MORE. It's hard to get a big pot of water boiling in the freezing wind and snow. I think I may just pour hot water on the fresh bark and make a tea that way. In 7 to 10 days it should be good and dark. Other than just dumping bark chips into my existing liquor that's kind of my only option at this point.
I'm intersted to see the hockskins after they're dry. That should let me know if the hair actually took any tannins. Being wet it might not show, but they look real good. I wish I'd had stuck the other 6 in there as well. I think they'd make a nice ML accessory pouch or even a bowdrill pouch.
Update:
On 1-15-2011 I went ahead and boiled another 3 gallons of water, then I added it to under 5 pounds of fresh unshredded bark chips to soak, off the heat. This new liquor turned dark almost immediately, and within a few days the liquor was a real dark red, almost black.
On the 23rd I poured off this new liquor, 2 gallons worth, and added the used bark chips to my existing batches, both the hockskins and the deer skin. The once used bark chips didn't appear to do much to strenthen my existing batches. Also, I checked the skin for strikethrough, when wet it still appeared white in the center, but after it dried for an hour or two it appeared to be fully struck through.
On the 26th I pulled the skin and hockskins from the old used liquors and added them both to the new liquor undiluted. I pitched the old liquors and used bark as I feel they may have been saturated with CaCO3/ calcium carbonate from the bucking process, and they stunk. The liquors didn't stink like rotting flesh, but like very ripe bark.
Side note:
I read over at braintan.com that it may not be good to save first run liquors that come from deer bucked in lime because the residual lime changes the liquor chemically, IIRC making it less acidic. But, I will save this new liquor for future use as by now the lime has surely worked out of the skins.
I'm going to let them go until this new liquor starts to weaken and check once more for strikethrough, probably in another week to ten days. As of now I'm well over the 45 day mark of tanning and I believe it is likely struck through, but I want to let it go further and absorb as much weight in tannins as possible. Hopefully this new batch of liquor will impart some more red into the skin, right now it's basically brown.
I've personally not had a problem with limes being left in, and since you rinsed in the creek I doubt if yours had much either, but still good info. I rinse and squeegee a few times before going in. Alkali limes mixed with tannic acid would surely create salts and weaken the liquor.
I'm glad you're being patient with it. For a deer, I'd think 45 days would be plenty, but being so cold up there it might take longer. Just keep doing what you're doing and I'm sure it'll turn out.
How about your bones and other projects? making any progress on those?
After putting the skin in the new liquor it seems much tighter and less rubbery/ stretchy. The grain seems more distinct when manipulated. It has a much different feel now. I have to look into getting some neatsfoot oil.
I haven't really had time for other projects and it's taking me time to decide on what to make as I want it to be something I will use and not strictly for show.
But, I took the uncooked bones from the buck and left 'em outside for the birds and cats to pick clean, worked fairly well. The sparrows, finches and such nibbled the bones quite clean in just a few days, the cats won't mess with them because the meat is frozen. I also took the cooked bones and did the same. Once the ice and snow is gone I'll try a few projects with each to see which holds up best, raw or cooked. I'm betting on raw. I had a cooked shoulder blade which I intended to make something with, but it was real brittle, I think it was from the cooking as i've found weathered shoulder blades that were not so brittle.
I have lots of sinew put up for sewing. I used the deer tallow to waterproof my boots, it worked great, but I ended up taking a hair dryer to them when finished to get the tallow to re-melt and really work itself into the seams and such. Added benefit, they are now much warmer too, but don't breath as well so it's a trade off. It makes them much better for ice fishing and slow hiking in cold wet weather.
I did use some of the new bark liquor to put a nice patina on one of my fixed blade knives, being high carbon steel it rusts easily, and I'm hoping the patina will limit that.
I'd like to see that knife after it's been stained
You're talking about ice and I was outside today stretching a wet skin with no shirt on... and I was sweating!
The weather is definitely the biggest determining factor when doing this kind of stuff. Today, we're dipping to the single digits. Tomorrow and the next day we are predicted to have the highest snowfall since 2005, over 12", it could be less, but freezing rain will take it's place, which can be even worse than snow. This, of course, is all based on the weatherman. I'm not sure where he gets his information on record snowfalls because we had 18" just a few years back.
Day 58: I don't know if you can see from these pics if it's struck through YCC, but, unless you say otherwise I'm going to sew the holes up, rinse out the excess tannin, squeegee out the excess moisture, curry and finish it this weekend if time permits.
I have a hard time seeing a distinct color change in the skin, maybe my eyes are going bad. LOL! But, the new liquor has weakened somewhat over the last 9 days, so it is still taking tannins, albeit much slower than before.
I was going back over your bark tan thread and am having a hard time drawing a distinction between currying and finishing. ??
What would you think of using mineral oil or canola oil to curry it? Those are the only two oils I have on hand, except for the tallow which would be difficult for currying. I have a feeling it would be hard to keep it melted enough to absorb into the skin. I could go buy some neatsfoot, but am VERY limited on funds, so if one of these two will suffice I'd much rather go that route.
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Same skin after I blotted off some moisture
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The second pic definately looks darker all the way through, compared to the pictures above from day 26. I'm not sure about what colors that bark will impart, but that might be it. I can definately see the fading as it gets closer to the middle, and the middle looks darkened slightly to me. I'd say go for it!
To make the distinction between currying and finishing: Currying introduces oil into the skin by emulsifying it in water. Oil and water don't normally mix, so a wet hide won't take oil.. it'll just bead up on it and never enter the hide. By emulsifying the oil, it can be absorbed by the damp skin and when the water evaporates, the oil is inside. Make sense?
Finishing is using straight oil to cover or treat the skin, which at that point should be dry enough to absorb oil from the grain side. This process is expedited because there is already some oil in the skin. oil and oil are attracted making a nicer "finish". Also at this point, it is decided whether a texture will be added, whether it will be molded, or slicked, etc. kinda like choosing which lacquer you're going to put on a table, we call that the "finish".
hope that makes sense too haha.
I would think canola oil would make a better curry than mineral oil. Save the mineral oil for a finish, but see if you can mix a drop or two of each to make sure they don't repel one another the way oil and water would. Even if they do, you could still finish with canola too. Depending on what you are going to make, I wouldn't use the tallow unless it needs to be heavy and very water repellent!
If you want a harder, tack leather don't stretch it much, and if it needs to move and breathe, stake it. I can't wait to see the finished piece!! Good work and an excellent display of patience. Two thumbs up!!
So, which would be better for the emulsion, regular bar soap or dishsoap? I don't have any of that good ole fashioned homeade lye soap that I been hearing so much about.
Wtf?? Mods!!!
RWC, colgate, or fels naptha is preferrable, but if you have some gentle bathsoap like Dove, or Ivory, that'll work just fine. The soap isn't that important as long as it isn't a harsh degreaser, like gojo or lava.
I gotta make some more lye soap and I promise I'll send ya some!
He was a spammer and has been dispatched to the spam heap.Originally Posted by your_comforting_company
HeHeHe the way ALL spammers should be treated!
Because a survival situation carries an aura of timelessness, a survivor cannot allow himself to be overcome by it's duration or quality. A survivor accepts the situation as it is and improves it from that standpoint. Prologue from Outdoor Survival Skills by Larry Dean Olsen
Cool, thanks YCC.
Today the skins were finally struck through, 61 days it took, and I began the process of oiling and finishing them.
Here's a few pics of the skins before they went into the oil emulsion for finishing.
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It's been a long time waiting, but perhaps it's finally about to pay off. I just need to get oil into the skins and work them dry, then they will be finished and ready for use.
BTW, I used Ivory soap and canola oil for the emulsion.
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